Another elk/deer slayer taken out

[Azlongears]

Well said Epperson, straight up.

[hunter4life]

Well said Josh.

I used to believe there were tons of lions out in the woods until I started hunting them here in NM and it took 5 days to find a single track in snows that were 24-48 hours old. In the dirt I would see more tracks but alot are not real fresh and are probably just the same lion covering lots of country.

[5yearcoueshunter]

I've always thought that Lions were not as big as a problem on deer herds as coyotes. Lions are very territorial and basically control their own population to some extent. I do believe Lions still need to be managed because of man's interference with our domestick livestock that give the Lion's an unnatural food source and other habitat factors such as fire surpression, etc. Coyotes on the other hand, are way overpopulated in my opinion and I think are the primary culprit of fawn mortatily. From what I've read, naturally wolves kept coyote populations in check. A perfect example of this is our elk herds. At least here in New Mexico, if there wasn't any cow elk seasons, elk would overrun the country because they dont' have enough natural predators. Coyotes take a few young elk and so do bears and mountain lions, but I don't think they are a limiting factor because elk congregate in bigger herds and are just bigger animals than deer. Wolves and grizzly bears were probably the primary predator on elk. That said, I think our Game and Fish department gives way to many cow elk tags, but that's a different story. Anyway, I definately don't think Lions are evil or need to be all killed because they are hurting our deer herds. All predators and game animals need to be managed through hunting/trapping in my humble opinion.

 

 

Travis

[azyoung]

Travis, you mentioned fire suppression as a factor. I think the USFS has more blame on low deer numbers than any lion or any other predator. USFS = 100 years of miss-managing the forest

 

azyoung

[TREESTANDMAN]

I've always thought that Lions were not as big as a problem on deer herds as coyotes.  Lions are very territorial and basically control their own population to some extent.  I do believe Lions still need to be managed because of man's interference with our domestick livestock that give the Lion's an unnatural food source and other habitat factors such as fire surpression, etc.  Coyotes on the other hand, are way overpopulated in my opinion and I think are the primary culprit of fawn mortatily.  From what I've read, naturally wolves kept coyote populations in check.    A perfect example of this is our elk herds.  At least here in New Mexico, if there wasn't any cow elk seasons, elk would overrun the country because they dont' have enough natural predators.  Coyotes take a few young elk and so do bears and mountain lions, but I don't think they are a limiting factor because elk congregate in bigger herds and are just bigger animals than deer.  Wolves and grizzly bears were probably the primary predator on elk.  That said, I think our Game and Fish department gives way to many cow elk tags, but that's a different story.  Anyway, I definately don't think Lions are evil or need to be all killed because they are hurting our deer herds.  All predators and game animals need to be managed through hunting/trapping in my humble opinion.

 

 

Travis

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I agree that coyotes are a big obstacle to fawn survival. Last January I had a coyote chase an adult doe under my treestand. Three months ago I witnessed a coyote chasing another doe in that same area. And about 4 months ago I heard a fawn screaming and shortly thereafter a coyote running from a doe that was right on his heels. Coyotes are constantly harrassing these deer I think.

[billrquimby]

I agree that coyotes probablly eat more deer than lions, but deer aren't entirelyl vulnerable to coyotes. Once in the flat between Sunrise Lake and Slaughter Ranch I saw a coyote running like the dickens away from an antelope doe. I believe she would have killed that coyote if it hadn't scooted under a fence just before she caught up to it. Another time Bullwidgeon's grandfather and I were driving from Alpine to Big Lake when we spotted a coyote being chased by a mule deer. I don't know how often this happens or if an angry mother deer/antelope has ever caught a coyote, but it sure made me cheer for the them.

 

Bill

[azpackhorse]

I don't know too much about lions but I read an article recently based on a study that was done to determine the main diet of lions in a particular area, I was a little surprised to learn that in this area close to 50% of the studied lions diet was comprised of beef. The percentages varied with calving season of course. I guess it makes sense that a beef calf would be easier prey than deer or javelina. A very small percent was small animals (rabbits, mice etc.) They determined the results by collecting scat and analyzing it.

 

I know a little about Coyotes and I have witnessed on several occasions more than one coyote "working" groups of deer to try and cut fawns out of the herd. Mule Deer does, like has been said, will fight back with the fury only an angry mother knows! I watched two coyotes last September in 36c try their luck on a group of Mule Deer and one of them got the crap kicked out of him.

For anyone that enjoys calling coyotes try a fawn bleet when you first set up, especially down south.

I've also seen a Bobcat harrassed by a Coues doe this year, the Bobcat seemed less than impressed.

[AZP&Y]

Time to start trackin some lions in the white stuff!