Defending predators

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

Iam begining to wonder if theres to many deer in this state. Seems like every time I take the dogs out lion huntin all they do is run the piss outa deer.

Maybe deer hunters should just shoot any deer they can. It might make my kinda huntin a little better

 

Maybe you shoud quit feeding deer chasers and get some lion dogs!

 

Sorry... had to.... :lol:

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

It wasn't too many years ago that lions wiped out the deer on the strip. It is very well documented. There were no deer tags for quite awhile. I saw a trail camera photo from this fall that had 8 lions in it. On a stock tank on the strip. 8 lions at one time on one tank. If you want to shoot a lion, head north. There are a lotta lions and hunters aint ever gonna make a big dent in em. Lark.

The hound hunters won't shoot small/young lions in these areas even when there are multiple bag limits in effect! I would like to here if the new night hunting with lights has any success!

 

The Deer and Sheep Assoc. help a lot on this by issueing a contracts in problem/multi bag areas and then atleast a few smaller catts are taken... but you could put 5 packs on the ground for 2 months straight and not put a dent in the cats up north... the Park alnoe holds a forever renewable resource of cats up there...

[reganranch]

If lions are not a predation problem then why did the G&F just make it legal to hunt them at night with lights? For several years now there has been multiple bag limit units that permit hunter's to shoot a lion per day until the unit quotas are met!These quotas are never met!

The combination of drought and too many lions = diminishing sheep/deer populations..... We can't do much about the weather/drought so the logical answer is to thin out the lion population....

It sounds to me that you are against shooting young/small lions because they make more of a trophy when they grow older & larger by eating our deer and sheep!

I want to know why none of the quotas in the multiple bag units are ever met?????? Is it all the big bad hound hunters out there turning loose small cats because they want them to get bigger by eating the sheep and deer!

The reason why they have the multiple bag limits is to encourage the hunters to shoot lions big or small and be able to get after them the next day!

The hound hunters ain't been getting it done so the G&F now allows night hunting with lights - I guarantee you that when I call in a Mt Lion day or night I won't be judging it's size before pulling the trigger.... As long as it doesn't have spots or kittens its gonna get skinned! I am not against hounds hunting and I have done it , shooting a scared cat up a tree with a pack of hounds squawking was fun and expensive$$$$ I have also called and killed several lions - I prefer the calling method it just seems more natural to see a big cat come slinking in to make a kill and then surprise it with a a lead sandwich!

Hey aRt - Don't give up that day job I don't think you can cut it as a professional lion hunter!

You sir are very in sync with whats going on in Arizona. Lions are not a huge problem until lack of water becomes apparent from border to border. Then the lions can really take a toll on the game animals that live in the dryer part of the state. Why do you think you see more game in New Mexico then you do Arizona in nearly every biozone? because they receive more annual precipitiation.

[Tines]

It wasn't too many years ago that lions wiped out the deer on the strip. It is very well documented. There were no deer tags for quite awhile. I saw a trail camera photo from this fall that had 8 lions in it. On a stock tank on the strip. 8 lions at one time on one tank. If you want to shoot a lion, head north. There are a lotta lions and hunters aint ever gonna make a big dent in em. Lark.

The hound hunters won't shoot small/young lions in these areas even when there are multiple bag limits in effect! I would like to here if the new night hunting with lights has any success!

 

Unfortunately there might be too much success shooting the WRONG critter, I'll bet.

[gearsnagger]

It wasn't too many years ago that lions wiped out the deer on the strip. It is very well documented. There were no deer tags for quite awhile. I saw a trail camera photo from this fall that had 8 lions in it. On a stock tank on the strip. 8 lions at one time on one tank. If you want to shoot a lion, head north. There are a lotta lions and hunters aint ever gonna make a big dent in em. Lark.

The hound hunters won't shoot small/young lions in these areas even when there are multiple bag limits in effect! I would like to hear if the new night hunting with lights has any success!

 

Unfortunately there might be too much success shooting the WRONG critter, I'll bet.

 

I heard the F&G will have zero tolerance on that... I used to hunt at night with light in another state , Identifying animals is easy , so shooting the wrong critter because it looked like a lion won't make a good excuse!

[Scooter]

Yeah, it actually is pretty easy to ID animals in a spotlight... They normally just stand there hypnotized until the inevitable BANG!

[Tines]

My concern is how they will enforce "zero tolerance". There's "zero tolerance" on mistaking a doe for a buck and shooting it but it happens every year and a slap on the wrist is all the offender gets if they're honest. And that's during DAYLIGHT hours! Why wouldn't mistaken identity at night with a spotlight be treated any different? But I'm sure everyone can tell the difference between a fox and a coyote pup, right? I was worried for a second.

 

If you're wondering, yes, I can tell the difference between the two. But when someone mistakes something obvious like antlers when there's not, that seems even more ridiculous, right???

 

WM's and the state are limited on what they can do due to resources (or lack there-of). If they had a never ending pocket-book, I might feel a little different about this. But they don't and I just see this new law creating some issues. I'm all for "more opportunity" but I don't know about this. This is a tough one for me as also I understand the importance of predator control in the units mentioned.

 

I'm curious to get some WM's thoughts on this?

 

Am I the only one that finds it disturbing that a jeep full of teenagers and spotlights mounted on rifles driving around the desert near the Kofa's at 2am on a Tuesday morning is perfectly legal???? But I'm sure there will be adequate enforcement in these units. Just sayin'.....

[gearsnagger]

My concern is how they will enforce "zero tolerance". There's "zero tolerance" on mistaking a doe for a buck and shooting it but it happens every year and a slap on the wrist is all the offender gets if they're honest. And that's during DAYLIGHT hours! Why wouldn't mistaken identity at night with a spotlight be treated any different? But I'm sure everyone can tell the difference between a fox and a coyote pup, right? I was worried for a second.

 

If you're wondering, yes, I can tell the difference between the two. But when someone mistakes something obvious like antlers when there's not, that seems even more ridiculous, right???

 

WM's and the state are limited on what they can do due to resources (or lack there-of). If they had a never ending pocket-book, I might feel a little different about this. But they don't and I just see this new law creating some issues. I'm all for "more opportunity" but I don't know about this. This is a tough one for me as also I understand the importance of predator control in the units mentioned.

 

I'm curious to get some WM's thoughts on this?

 

Am I the only one that finds it disturbing that a jeep full of teenagers and spotlights mounted on rifles driving around the desert near the Kofa's at 2am on a Tuesday morning is perfectly legal???? But I'm sure there will be adequate enforcement in these units. Just sayin'.....

Yes I agree - Lot's of loose ends about this night hunting and yes I agree the state is limited on their resources when it comes to catching and prosecuting poachers! I guess they trust it will mostly be experienced hunters out there at night and that they will know and obey the law's! The old honor system again and counting on hunters/joe public to report poaching! The scoop I heard a Fish and Game about the zero tolerance is - Get caught shooting Bobcats , Fox or Coyotes at night in a lion only area and it is automatic 1 year license suspension , multiple or 2nd offense 5 year license suspension! The same goe's during the coyote night hunts.... Basically read and understand the regulations before hunting - Ignorance of the laws is not a valid excuse for breaking them!

During the night lion hunt's you can't even shoot coyotes - Lions only - I don't understand this the coyotes have to be eating lambs also???? But that is the rule as I understand it... Maybe I am wrong but I am fairly sure about this!

I don't like the leniency policy given to deer,elk and antelope poaching either but I think this night hunting is worth trying as an alternate in addition to Ariel gunning coyotes and hounds for lions! Joe hunter now has the opportunity to do his part for predator control and maybe have a little fun at it!

[ThomC]

Night hunting is legal in most of the states and I dont hear of any problems. Its like when AZ made the CCW rule, people said there were going to be lots of shoot outs. It didnt happen. Go to Predator Masters .com. You will find out a multitude of info on really bright lights for night hunting. Since we have to use shotguns I dont think that the wrong animal excuse is viable. Much ado about nothing IMO.