Defending predators

[elpepe25]

aRT, to quote you about another rampant predator "Wolves fit this same category. They are going to wander outside of any boundary...they are going to prey on domestic animals...they only belong in controlled environments."

 

So where to go from here?

 

If wolves don’t fit in because they are an uncontrollable predator that we have replaced, how do lions fit?

 

American sportsmen vote w/ their dollar. The majority continually vote for Deer, Elk, Sheep, and Antelope. They assign more value to them. Therefore Lions must receive a lower value due to their predation on desirable species....... much like wolves.

 

The mission statement of most conservation entities usually mirrors "the most good, for the most people, for the most time." Your opinion (to which you are entitled) puts you in the minority. You are no longer fitting into the "for the most people" category. But you can continue to express your "vote" with your almighty dollar and assign these predators the value in which you deem appropriate.

[25-06]

aRT, to quote you about another rampant predator "Wolves fit this same category. They are going to wander outside of any boundary...they are going to prey on domestic animals...they only belong in controlled environments."

 

So where to go from here?

 

If wolves don’t fit in because they are an uncontrollable predator that we have replaced, how do lions fit?

 

American sportsmen vote w/ their dollar. The majority continually vote for Deer, Elk, Sheep, and Antelope. They assign more value to them. Therefore Lions must receive a lower value due to their predation on desirable species....... much like wolves.

 

The mission statement of most conservation entities usually mirrors "the most good, for the most people, for the most time." Your opinion (to which you are entitled) puts you in the minority. You are no longer fitting into the "for the most people" category. But you can continue to express your "vote" with your almighty dollar and assign these predators the value in which you deem appropriate.

Wolves and lion are not the same. Lions kill to eat while wolves kill for the heck of it.

[muledeerarea33?]

25-06, you can't hunt with poodles and shits'oos. . I Haven't ever killed a lion, would love to though, but have seen the damage wolve's do up the blue on friends ranches but I guess that's getting off topic here

[elpepe25]

really?

 

so what is wolf poop made of?

 

Predators are undesirable (common opinion) in any species whether be kitty, wolf or whatever. What it boils down to is that "us", the dominant predator dont like competition. We want to hunt the elk, deer, harvest the livestock etc. Therefore predators=bad.

 

To quote aRT again: "All of this attention that is being paid to endangered species is a whole lot disturbing to me. The fact that it is taking priority over human beings is very disturbing."

 

Hipocracy... of course,

 

Just trying to point out a pot calling the kettle black

 

save one predator for "future generations" but remove another?

[rclouse79]

really?

 

so what is wolf poop made of?

 

snazzberries

[25-06]

really?

 

so what is wolf poop made of?

Made of sh!t.

[25-06]

25-06, you can't hunt with poodles and shits'oos. . I Haven't ever killed a lion, would love to though, but have seen the damage wolve's do up the blue on friends ranches but I guess that's getting off topic here

Yup, Like the 4 drag.

[muleskinner]

elpepe25...don't recall advocating the removal of the wolf....due to some natural tendencies, it needs a lot of management and control. Lots of differences between wolves and lions and their predatory habits. I don't think you'll find too many 8-12 member lion packs. I have'nt heard of a pack of lions coming down on a bunch of hounds that were treeing, and killing 3-5 hounds. This has become all to common in states such as Idaho, Montana, and some of the north eastern states. Lions are also legal game animals. Don't think you can legally hunt wolves in most of the lower 48 states. Just a few of the differences in the 2 animals that requires different management approaches. I have also read several reports that state that wolves are having drastic impact on elk herds in Idaho and Montana. Nobody is saying that about lions. Here in N.M. lions seem to leave cattle pretty much alone in favor of deer. I hunt on one ranch that has a healthy lion population, and in the last 5-6 years they have'nt reported any livestock losses due to lions. May not be typical, I

don't know. So, I don't think it is inconsistent to expect different management policies for the 2 species. Speaking of livestock losses, I think we might have just about ridden this horse to death. I've enjoyed the back and forth and I realize this is primarily a deer hunting forum and I am clearly in the minority. Makes me feel sorta special. You all have wonderful hunting season and I will cease and desist from any more comment on this one.

[elpepe25]

You are correct, you never stated that there needed to be a removal of wolves; however you did state that they don’t ecologically fit in any more. We (humans) are a much more successful predator than wolves or lions. We do a decent job of keeping prey species in check. So with the same reasoning Lions no longer ecologically fit; we dont need them. They are counter productive to our goals.

 

I retire.

 

Best wishes.

[hunter4life]

It would be a very sad day to have all the lions gone. I personally think they are just as desirable as deer to have around and to be able to hunt. I used to think like many of the other "deer hunters" that the only good lion was a dead lion, but after hunting them for several years I have come to value lions much more than I used to. I have also realized that there are fewer lions than most deer hunters think there are. One thing you will find is that the lions are where the deer are at and those areas tend to be the same areas year after year. The lions are not out there decimating the deer herds and driving them away. I will admit that in some certain instances, such as with small isolated populations of bighorn sheep, they can be a big cause of mortality. I don't think this effect transfers to species like deer and elk that are much more widespread.

 

I also believe that the presence of lions and other predators make coues deer very wary and difficult to hunt which is what many people enjoy in their search for the "grey ghosts." As far as I am concerned hunting would not be much fun if it wasn't challenging and lions help to make it that way.

[DCS]

A good spirited debate is probably good for about any issue. I guess we have succeeded in that. I certainly applaud every ones willingness to state their opinion. You most likely won't alter your opinion and I probably won't alter mine. No problem there. I lived in Arizona for 17 years and actually got my start running hounds while living in Tucson. Hunted birds with shorthairs, javelina, deer and elk. I still hunt birds in Az every time I can. I am a tad familiar with the scene there. We have many of the same attitudes in N. M. concerning lions. Most ranchers here think the only good lion is a dead lion. I fully understand their position. I guess the point I was trying to make is this: I don't understand why so many deer hunters have only one perspective on lions, and that is eliminate them because they happen to compete for the animal I am after. I own a business here and I don't consider myself a professional lion hunter. It's simply a thing I do for fun. Mostly from the enjoyment of seeing dogs work. So, I probably won't be quitting my day job any time soon. Unless someone would like to buy a fairly succesful hvac business in the middle of some beautiful country! Oh well, peace and prosperity be granted unto all of you. Long live el gato!

[DCS]

A good spirited debate is probably good for about any issue. I guess we have succeeded in that. I certainly applaud every ones willingness to state their opinion. You most likely won't alter your opinion and I probably won't alter mine. No problem there. I lived in Arizona for 17 years and actually got my start running hounds while living in Tucson. Hunted birds with shorthairs, javelina, deer and elk. I still hunt birds in Az every time I can. I am a tad familiar with the scene there. We have many of the same attitudes in N. M. concerning lions. Most ranchers here think the only good lion is a dead lion. I fully understand their position. I guess the point I was trying to make is this: I don't understand why so many deer hunters have only one perspective on lions, and that is eliminate them because they happen to compete for the animal I am after. I own a business here and I don't consider myself a professional lion hunter. It's simply a thing I do for fun. Mostly from the enjoyment of seeing dogs work. So, I probably won't be quitting my day job any time soon. Unless someone would like to buy a fairly succesful hvac business in the middle of some beautiful country! Oh well, peace and prosperity be granted unto all of you. Long live el gato!

aRT,You don't need to worry about el gato going extinct as my cousins hunters have been harvesting 25-30 lions every year since 1967 in central New Mexico[Magdelina]with no shortage in sight.

[Mr. Jonathan]

It would be a very sad day to have all the lions gone. I personally think they are just as desirable as deer to have around and to be able to hunt. I used to think like many of the other "deer hunters" that the only good lion was a dead lion, but after hunting them for several years I have come to value lions much more than I used to. I have also realized that there are fewer lions than most deer hunters think there are. One thing you will find is that the lions are where the deer are at and those areas tend to be the same areas year after year. The lions are not out there decimating the deer herds and driving them away. I will admit that in some certain instances, such as with small isolated populations of bighorn sheep, they can be a big cause of mortality. I don't think this effect transfers to species like deer and elk that are much more widespread.

 

I also believe that the presence of lions and other predators make coues deer very wary and difficult to hunt which is what many people enjoy in their search for the "grey ghosts." As far as I am concerned hunting would not be much fun if it wasn't challenging and lions help to make it that way.

 

 

Great response!

[.270]

It wasn't too many years ago that lions wiped out the deer on the strip. It is very well documented. There were no deer tags for quite awhile. I saw a trail camera photo from this fall that had 8 lions in it. On a stock tank on the strip. 8 lions at one time on one tank. If you want to shoot a lion, head north. There are a lotta lions and hunters aint ever gonna make a big dent in em. Lark.

[gearsnagger]

It wasn't too many years ago that lions wiped out the deer on the strip. It is very well documented. There were no deer tags for quite awhile. I saw a trail camera photo from this fall that had 8 lions in it. On a stock tank on the strip. 8 lions at one time on one tank. If you want to shoot a lion, head north. There are a lotta lions and hunters aint ever gonna make a big dent in em. Lark.

The hound hunters won't shoot small/young lions in these areas even when there are multiple bag limits in effect! I would like to here if the new night hunting with lights has any success!