Road Hunting

[JLW]

now that I re-read it I see how it can be up for different interpretation.

I was with the original poster on this but now I see how it can be seen differently.

I was told by a warden that if I was driving and saw a deer and got out with bow/gun and harvested that animal I would be in violation of road hunting. I have read on this forum and others as well as seen videos of the strip where they saw a big buck while they were driving and hopped out and tried to shoot the big buck. in the august/september hunt I hunt blinds or treestands but in the late hunt I do alot of glassing and strictly spot n stalk. I had this situation this weekend and not the first time either. I was driving to an evening glassing spot and came upon a nice heavy 3x3 with 9 does while driving. they clearly saw me driving and actually started to hop away. so I kept driving and they stopped and watched me drive away.I parked at the bottom of the hill where I was out of sight and got my release on and got my bow and the stalk was on. I didn't see any problem with that...? not like I hopped out and tried to shoot em. Am I wrong?

 

james

[DUG]

Part of the problem which nobody has really mentioned, is the guys who stop in the middle of the road with the doors open and they all pile out and chase whatever they are hunting. The truck sits there running and blocking the road. To me, that is road hunting. I see nothing wrong with parking off the road, not blocking it, and then pull out your gun or bow, put on your release/ load gun etc. and then pursue it. We were in the Kaibab one year and driving down a road and 4 deer ran in front of us. I parked off the road, got the gun, loaded it and went after them. When I came back the game warden was there and asked if we had any luck and checked our licenses. Not a mention of road hunting by him. As some have mentioned , the law is very fuzzy, and you should make sure you get off the road before going after something. I don't need an animal that bad....I like to see them before they see me.

[standman]

I have talked to several different game wardens in a few different regions and thier response was the same in only one way, that it was up to the warden to interpret the law how he sees it. One said that he considers road hunting anyone who is driving in a vehicle with a gun or bow that is not in a case and not readily accessible. Another said that as ling as you do not have a bullet in the chamber or arrow nocked and you get off the road edge then you are ok. And finally another used an example of if you are driving down the freeway, see a coyote pull off the road, go out and call him in and kill him, then you would be cited for road hunting.

 

This is my problem with the whole situation. They all have different ways of interpreting the law. You never know from one region to another what is completely legal.

 

Brian

[.270]

A very wise warden that I truly admired told me that the definition of hunt to him was when you actually shot at the animal. He explained that it was contrary to what one would think but explained that it was how the dept used it to keep confusion down and explanations simple. Said if someone was going down the road with a firearm you could say they were road hunting, when they weren't. They are making an effort to reduce abuse but there have been a lot of cases of overzealousness. (I hope I spelled that right). If you are in the back of a truck with a gun in your hands you may be in violation. The main thing we all to take away from this is the fact that we use tools to hunt with that can cause real tragedy and need to keep it in mind at all times. Go back to the very basic rules you learned hunters safety and remember them. Lark

[muledeerarea33?]

If you roll down the window and shoot a deer from the truck, You are road hunting ( depending on who see's you.) THATS MY Opinion on the whole situation. and really that's almost every ones opinion on it, there just too scared to say it on the internet. if you see a deer. record breaking or not, folks are gonna shoot it. end of argument, no matter what they say.

[Lucafu1]

If you roll down the window and shoot a deer from the truck, You are road hunting ( depending on who see's you.) THATS MY Opinion on the whole situation. and really that's almost every ones opinion on it, there just too scared to say it on the internet. if you see a deer. record breaking or not, folks are gonna shoot it. end of argument, no matter what they say.

 

 

exactly. i keep my rifle loaded at all times. when in a truck i drop the chambered round into the mag well. when i get out it is chambered. if i see any game while driving i will pull over and try and harvest it. simple as that.

[billrquimby]

I must confess I tried road hunting once, but I didn't find it challenging. There are roads everywhere. My main problem was I didn't know what to do with it after I shot one.

 

Bill Quimby

[gearsnagger]

I believe the 2nd Amendment needs to be considered ! I carry a .45 1911 Colt in my vehicle – Loaded and chambered…. Now I would love to have a Game an Fish officer cite me for road hunting based on his “interpretation” of why I have a loaded firearm in my vehicle! This would be a civil rights violation!

There used to be 2 closed hunts in Arizona – To prevent buddy hunting the AZGFD permitted only tag holders to have centerfire rifles/firearms in the field. This was found to be an infringement of the 2nd amendment…. The national forest is public domain and all civil rights are in effect on these public lands…. I was out calling predators during one of these closed hunts and I was using a shotgun shooting shot which was permitted as per the regulations a game warden checked our license’s and asked if I had any rifles in my truck, we had 2 rifles cased in the cab and he started to write the ticket for having rifles during a closed hunt…. As he was writing I asked him if it was legal to shoot coyotes from the truck – He said no … Then I asked him where the “field” begins… He said that that was up to his interpretation…… He stopped writing the ticket and gave us back our licenses ….As a citizen it is my right to "Question Authority"!!!!!!!!

What about quad hunters/riders riding around with their weapons mounted on the front of the quad – Easily accessible with the flip of the hold down strap…. How is this more acceptable than having a loaded weapon in the cab of your truck!

“Method of take” – Again we are defining “take” does this mean actually “harvesting” or intent to “kill” something…. I suppose the a$$ h0le that “takes” your game camera is actually “harvesting” electronic equipment…….

When you shoot a weapon you are responsible for what that round does and you are also responsible for your own self defense!

[couesdiehard]

I was warned on this one this season. WM said that carrying the rifle in the passenger area of the UTV unloaded and uncased COULD be considered road hunting. I explained all I had in camp was a double rifle hard case and I wasn't going to leave one rifle in a hard case when we got to our hunting area and that we were driving to a hunting area where would exit the vehicle, load up and go hunt. The WM said it could still be considered road-hunting if the WM interpreted our actions as actively pursuing game from the vehicle with an uncased rifle. I got clever and placed the rifle in a Coleman folding-chair bag. Never got stopped again to ask about the legality of this. As a side note,the chair bag did keep the dust off the rifle pretty well though.

Lee

[mcelkhunter]

I don't think I know anybody that hunts that has not seen a game animal while driving and gotten out of the vehicle to pursue it. I see game animals all the time just driving to and from work and have gone home and retrieved my method of take and gone after them or just pulled off the road and went after them if I had a legal weapon. This season I would stop along the road in several places that offer decent glassing vantage points to look for deer while driving home from work.

 

The law is very vague and while a game warden could probably cite many people for road hunting for what they believe the intent to be, being able to prove your intent in court is a totally different matter.

[.270]

Az has no law concerning loaded guns or bows or guns that aren't in a case. if someone got cited because their gun or bow wasn't in a case i hope they fought it because that's BS. a guy i know and his wife were on a quad during an elk hunt and she had her rifle slung across her back. a gw got a little zealous and cited em for road hunting. i think his @$$ still hurts over it too. he actually came to their house to try and get the ticket back. having a loaded gun in your vehicle does not mean you're road hunting. doesn't even mean you're hunting. you don't even need a hunting license. i just went to town and had a gun in my pocket the whole time. this is Arizona. it's almost against the law to not carry a gun. Lark.

[WM U37B]

Hello All,

Interesting topic...here's my 2 cents. First let's start with a few definitions:

1) ARS 17-101 - Take - "Take" means pursuing, shooting, hunting, fishing, trapping, killing, capturing, snaring or netting wildlife or the placing or using of any net or other device or trap in a manner that may result in the capturing or killing of wildlife.

 

2) ARS 17-301B - Times when wildlife may be taken; exceptions; methods of taking - A person shall not take wildlife, except aquatic wildlife, or discharge a firearm or shoot any other device from a motor vehicle, including an automobile, aircraft, train or powerboat, or from a sailboat, boat under sail, or a floating object towed by powerboat or sailboat except as expressly permitted by the commission. No person may knowingly discharge any firearm or shoot any other device upon, from, across or into a road or railway.

 

Ok, now that we have the definitions, let's talk about the law. It's based on a reasonableness standard which means "what would a reasonable person do or think" Courtesy of wikipedia.org, below is the definition of a "reasonable person"

 

 

The reasonable person (historically reasonable man) is a legal fiction of the common law that represents an objective standard against which any individual's conduct can be measured. It is used to determine if a breach of the standard of care has occurred, provided a duty of care can be proven.

 

The reasonable person standard holds: each person owes a duty to behave as a reasonable person would under the same or similar circumstances.[1][2] While the specific circumstances of each case will require varying kinds of conduct and degrees of care, the reasonable person standard undergoes no variation itself.[3][4]

 

This standard performs a crucial role in determining negligence in both criminal law—that is, criminal negligence—and tort law. The standard also has a presence in contract law, though its use there is substantially different.[5] The standard does not exist independently of other circumstances within a case that could affect an individual's judgment.

 

Ok, still moving on...I've read several peoples' responses and many of them talk about how a WM interprets the law, or they can interpret it as they see fit. Someone even mentioned that they can interpret it as they need or want according to their agenda. It's unfortunate some people think negatively of the AGFD and it's WM's like this. If we look above at #1 (take) and #2 (17-301B), I don't believe there is any misinterpretation for #2 as it reads pretty clearly..."No person shall take wildlife or discharge a firearm or shoot any other device from a motor vehicle". The definition of "take" however is where everyone is getting hung up on how it's interpreted. In looking at it more carefully, I believe people are only getting hung up on the word "pursue" as many of the other verbs are pretty clear.

 

Many might ask why the word "pursue" in in the definition of take. People need a valid hunting license to pursue, capture and collect reptiles in AZ. Also, houndsmen need a valid hunting license to allow their dogs to pursue wildlife such as lions, bears, and raccoon's even if they are not successful. People can still be "taking" wildlife even if they fail to catch the snake or tree the lion or bear because they must "pursue" the wildlife first prior to capturing or killing it.

 

Now back to road hunting...in many cases (not always as described below), the issuance of a citation for 17-301B - take from a motor vehicle, requires an overt action such as someone actually shooting from the cab of the vehicle or sitting in a lawn chair in the bed of the vehicle (bow in hand with arrow knocked). For many, an overt action is required to enforce this law.

 

This law can also be enforced, however, based on what's called the "totality of the circumstances" which essentially means all things considered. This is probably where some of the interpretation issues mentioned in previous postings may have happened. For example, if I were sitting on a hill and I saw someone driving very very slowly back and forth along the same stretch of roadway for a long time and observed them stop several times in the middle of the road and glass, this is getting closer to road hunting. Let's say I contact them and they have the means to take wildlife readily accessible in the cab of the vehicle...now we are probably even closer. From what I have described above, can I prove in a court of law that the person was road hunting based on the totality of the circumstances?...maybe yes, maybe no. Some officers may pursue it and some may not. If I had video or very detailed notes over a long period of time, I probably could. If I had some type of overt action like pointing a gun out of the window, this would obviously be a best case scenario. Regardless, the burden of proof is on the state to prove the hunter was road hunting.

 

Remember, the key is, what would a reasonable person do or think? They wouldn't say you are road hunting when you leave your house to go hunting even though you are going to be pursuing wildlife and you have the means to kill or capture wildlife.

 

Hopefully this helps a little. Happy hunting to everyone.

 

Thanks,

Ben Brochu, Wildlife Manager 37B

bbrochu@azgfd.gov

520-591-7636

[stanley]

Thanks much for chiming-in on the topic Ben!

 

Good summary!

 

S.

 

 

 

[JLW]

I think that is what most people were looking for... an insiders view.

thanks for your input!

 

james

[AZLance]

If any of you are cited for this, please call a attorney. If you dont know one, call me and I will recomend one. Most of these cititations can easily be thrown out if you are willing to fight it.

 

With this being said; I dont know what the fuss is about? In the last 12 years of hunting and guiding, I have yet to see a G&F warden durring my hunts...