Thanks ALOT! You JACKWAGONS!

[CouesWhitetail]

Kevin,

 

I can see why you are upset....whenever i have seen someone pointing their gun in my direction, I don't stand up and wave, I get behind a tree or rock fast! After they put their guns down, then I might try waving or shouting...depends on if I think it's safe to do that or not. On my deer hunt this year I watched some guys using their scopes to glass for deer. They rode horses onto the ridge of the canyon I was glassing from afar. Got off their horses and rested their guns on a juniper and looked like they were getting ready to shoot. I had been glassing all over that bowl and I thought there is no way they are about to shoot a buck. Then they starting pointing the gun in many different directions (including my direction) and my buddy finally made sense of it for me...they were "glassing" with their rifle scopes. It's extremely unpleasant to have someone do that to you.

 

Amanda

[Pine Donkey]

Thanks Tony for posting the "official" version of what I posted.

 

 

Hmm, I'm not sure they're one and the same. This seems to be a bit of a contradiction, no?

 

“Take,” as defined by

law, includes pursuing, shooting, hunting

and killing wildlife. You are unlawfully using

a vehicle to take wildlife if you intentionally

drive around until you see the animal you

wish to harvest and then make an attempt to

take. “Road hunting” is illegal; so is pursuing

wildlife with a vehicle, chasing or heading off

moving wildlife with a vehicle, and driving offroad

to get closer to wildlife. You do not have

to shoot from the vehicle to be in violation.

 

Also, I'm guessing that each wildlife manager MIGHT interpret the law differently, given individual scenarios.

 

Tony,

I think we are saying the same thing here. What I said is that Kevin's account did not show that the hunters were " intentionally drive(ing) around until you see an animal you wish to harvest then make an attempt to take". They may have been driving from one place to park at another when the buck was spotted. The other point I made is that they did not shoot from a "maintained" road since they were on a two tracker.

 

The situation was a bad one, and if I were Kevin I'd be quite upset. I do not like that style of hunting and I am not trying to support those in the white dodge. I am just saying I am not so sure they broke any laws.

 

Offen times factions within the hunting community attack each other because they don't like their style of hunting. If somebody is taking game in a legal way, but one which I do not like, it is my duty as a fellow sportsman to support their right to do so. When we begin to define our hunting rights in the narrow areas that we prefer, we all begin to lose our hunting rights. This fragmentation of hunting groups and rights was used to take away our ability to use leg hold traps on public land. The same tactics may again be used to take additional hunting away, such as pursuits by dogs, killing of loins or bears or...who knows what.

 

If someone is legally hunting, I support them even if I don't like their style of hunting. I hope they will do the same for me!

[elkaholic]

a "2 track" in the bottom of a canyon is not a maintained rd. you say they stopped got out and shot at buck

 

where's the illegal

 

no one wants to be in the position of danger because of some idiots usin scope to glass -

[Guest Del]

I woulda fired back. Been there - done that. Someone "glassing" at me? I'd "glass" right back at them and make sure they saw me.

[Coach]

I feel for you man - I've been "checked out" through a rifle scope and understand how irked you get. In my case, I was up on a tall hill near 2 track. Saw a boy and his dad walking up the road glassing as they went so I actually took a blaze orange vest out of my pack and hung it above me so they would know I was there. I look up and see the kid trying to find out what that orange thing was with his rifle scope. As I was diving for cover, I just saw dad swatting the gun down.

[ThomC]

If you call gamethief then the G&F has the opportunity to assess the situation. Probably wont be an arrest but maybe the Officer would be able to impress upon the dodge shooters the error of their ways. Or maybe these road shooters dont have a tag. WE are the eyes and ears to help clean our sport.

[Guest super jumbo]

I would bet that there isnt one guy on here that wouldnt jump out of his truck and blaze away at a 115 inch buck running across the road. I am an active road hunter when traveling from spot to spot to go hike 2 or 3 miles to another "heck hole". Can you guys imagine if everyone called operation game thief to report a possible road hunting incident. I am as far from a road hunter as you can get, but some people enjoy it, maybe because of their physical condition. Everyone who drives to another spot to hunt is road hunting on their way to the new spot, unless they have their blinders on, and never look right or left as they are driving.

[Big Tub]

I agree with Amanda that I would not have been out their waving my arms and essentially drawing their fire. They are looking for movement in their scope just after shooting at a deer. You are lucky you didn't get shot.

 

I'm not sure they broke any laws (by pointing a rifle) as I don't think they knew you were there. 2-track is not a road. What they did was stupid and unethical for sure.

 

I had an experience in 32 where this guy (maybe on this site), a self-proclaimed 1000 RD shooter, unloaded 2 rifles from the back of his truck off the top of the cab (in front of his kids), which is illegal. He wounded a huge mule deer and lost it. We saw it several days later at dawn but couldn't close the deal. Their whole party routinely road hunts which we observed again this year but that is hard to prove. He wasted our tax dollars with 3 trips to court and then plead out for a measly $462 with no loss of privileges. We encountered the guys again this year when they ran a nice buck to wards me but gave up the chase, maybe because they saw me or knew I was there or they didn't know which way to go. We blew the stalk, anyway. I must prefer to inherently be a nonconsumptive wildlife user. They did take a buck on the last day of the hunt 5 minutes after driving out of camp in an open jeep/thing. I cound not see them shoot this time or they would be in court again but you judge for yourself if they were road hunting. I certainly understand your frustration.

[DUG]

. Everyone who drives to another spot to hunt is road hunting on their way to the new spot, unless they have their blinders on, and never look right or left as they are driving.

You may be right. But, true road hunters drive 3 mph with rounds chambered just ready to fly out of the truck when something is spotted. There is nothing wrong with going from point A to point B and spotting something from the road. The difference is speed. Ask any WM.....

[Guest super jumbo]

. Everyone who drives to another spot to hunt is road hunting on their way to the new spot, unless they have their blinders on, and never look right or left as they are driving.

You may be right. But, true road hunters drive 3 mph with rounds chambered just ready to fly out of the truck when something is spotted. There is nothing wrong with going from point A to point B and spotting something from the road. The difference is speed. Ask any WM.....

Well put, and +1. I hunt a lot near major highways and some big dirt roads, and my biggest complaint about road hunters centers around the speed they are driving also. I wish they would go a little faster just so they would get out of the way as quick as possible, and not spook the game we are looking at. I just think there is a time and a place for road hunting. I spent over a 100 days in the field this year, and i must say 2 or 3 of those days where spent doing some hard core road hunting due to shear exhaustion from hiking myself into the ground day after day. I would hope that if someone "caught" me road hunting those 2 or 3 days out of a 100 that i wouldnt be called into operation game thief for doing so. Not defending road hunting, but there is a time and a place for it. Just dont shoot from the road or across a road i dont have a problem with it. I hope the current road hunters stay road hunters, so i have less compition in the back country, as its starting to get a little crowded these days. Good luck to all this late archery season. The rut is on and the party is about to begin.

[AZLance]

The definition of a "road" is any road that is regularly maintained on a schedule. A two track does NOT qualify as a road under this definition. So you may legally shoot from, across, or onto a two track. And just because a road has been graded, doesn't mean it is scheduled maintenance, the law says it has to have regular scheduled maintenance to qualify as a road.

[Big Tub]

BTW: all the deer I was watching merely stood still and looked towards the moving vehicles -- did not spook. Now if the guys got out of the vehicles, that is a different story! Let them drive through. But to go in on a dead end road when you pass two parked vehicles? That may be justifiable homicide!

[ThomC]

The definition of a "road" is any road that is regularly maintained on a schedule. A two track does NOT qualify as a road under this definition. So you may legally shoot from, across, or onto a two track. And just because a road has been graded, doesn't mean it is scheduled maintenance, the law says it has to have regular scheduled maintenance to qualify as a road.

 

 

A.R.S. 17-101 Definations

 

16. "Road" means any maintained right-of-way for public conveyance.

 

 

No mention of "scheduled" in the G&F regs. FS 82 is partially graded but you will need 4x4 for alot of it.

 

It is a judgement call and I called it "road shooting".

 

With your judge then we can mount a shooting chair on the dodge and have at it on most 2 tracks.

[elkaholic]

The definition of a "road" is any road that is regularly maintained on a schedule. A two track does NOT qualify as a road under this definition. So you may legally shoot from, across, or onto a two track. And just because a road has been graded, doesn't mean it is scheduled maintenance, the law says it has to have regular scheduled maintenance to qualify as a road.

 

+1000 ever notice when the paved roads end - i usually see a big sign that states - drive at own risk - this road is not maintained !

 

my definition of a rd hunter is someone who does not or will not leave the vechile unless something is spotted next to the road within shooting distance of the truck!

 

 

Fine line in the determinating if it is rd hunting as far as speed!

 

even though i may have a destination in mind - I'm always looking for game animals out the window - .I'll drive slow ,sometimes stop and even get out and glass - - this is not road hunting -

 

so i stop and spot/glass and animal 1/2 mile up a hill and go after it - was I rd hunting ?

 

my hunting does not start till i stop and get out of the vechile to pursue the game animal- which we all do anytime we enter the field to go hunting .

[.270]

don't confuse road and vehicle. unless you are properly licensed, you can't shoot from a vehicle for any reason. you can shoot from, acros or into a non maintained road. i'm pretty sure a private road doesn't count either, even it is maintained every day. if you couldn't shoot across any road, there are a lotta canyons with two trackers in the bottom that you wouldn't be able to shoot across. as far as speed goes, where does that come from? is there a certain speed you hafta go or it's road hunting? this whole thing is an unfortunate deal. glad it wasn't a tragedy. a guide got killed in new mex a couple years ago by a guy looking at a dead elk through his scope. but just because someone is driving down a road doesn't make em a criminal or even a bad guy. they are just driving down the road and saw a deer. we've all done it. Lark.