one more good wolf

[.270]

another wolf died. they're droppin' like flies. maybe it's an early Christmas present?

 

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/12/09/20111209injured-wolf-dies-way-veterinarian.html

 

there was another article today about how it's hunter's fault that the condors are gettin' lead poisoning. why is that only condors get it? ravens, eagles, crows, redtail hawks, blue jays, etc, all eat animal guts. why don't they get it too? is there something i don't understand? or could it be BS by the condor folks? surely they wouldn't lie. Lark.

[gearsnagger]

I would like to shoot a collared one and put the collar on a Bus or cross country semi truck!

[jeremiahjohnson]

This is a joke right?? Heaven forbid a wolf gets it's butt kicked in a fight, you can't mention natural selection, but we the hunters will take the blame because the granolas are already pointing fingers!! Wolfs are a waste of time and money, why spend millions to save one animal when in all honesty we the hunters spend more to save all animals!! Stupid.

[DesertBull]

They are preparing to introduce wolves to Ut, NV and Texas and expand the areas of release in AZ and NM.

[Arizona Griz]

FYI, those all do get lead poisoning.

[Outdoor Writer]

is there something i don't understand?

 

Yes, a lot.

[.270]

then why don't we hear about it? eagles, hawks, turkey vultures, they're all protected too. even ravens enjoy some protection. why isn't there any outrage about it and why don't we ever hear about it? maybe there are some things you don't want to understand? it won't be long and the strip and kaibab will off limits to hunters anyway. after they realease the wolves they will need all the deer to eat so the condors can eat the leftovers. i don't buy the lead deal. every bird up there would be getting it, along with the condors and they would be using that as ammo to take your ammo. why aren't these other birds dropping dead everywhere? their are a lot more deer killed all over the state than their are up there. these guys don't waste any opportunity to take things away. there isn't an arguement anyone can come up with that makes any sense. you can say all you want about how their gizzard works and whatever, but eagles, vultures and big hawks are big enough to ingest bullets too. do they have some immunity to lead? i don't buy it. these jokers have been caught too many times manufacturing evicence and covering up and fabricating stuff. i don't believe em. you can if you want. Lark.

[Outdoor Writer]

then why don't we hear about it? eagles, hawks, turkey vultures, they're all protected too. even ravens enjoy some protection.

 

I've got a busy weekend, so I won't have time to further your education to the extent necessary. Besides, we've been there and done this before.

 

One of my replies to you from a long time back:

 

In reality, lead poisoning is quite widespread in terrestial birds (that's the non-waterfowl kind for the unscientific types) and has been well documented in more than 60 species, including both American eagle species, all raptors and yes, ravens, too. Many of these terrestial species are susceptable in two ways -- either by ingesting the lead fragments while feeding on game carcasses or entrails or by picking up lead shot when they do their normal pecking for small stones or gravel to aid digestion. Pheasants, quail, chukars and wild turkeys have all suffered from lead poisoning as a result of the latter.

 

The difference between the documentation between such birds and the highly controlled condor is the ability to KNOW when the poisoning or deaths occur. Obviously, the condors are closely monitored, which includes radios, etc. Eagles, raptors or other terrestial birds are happenstance discoveries, however. Thus, the magnitude of lead poisoning losses for individual terrestial species is difficult to quantify.

 

As for knowing how the condors are ingesting lead from bullets and not trash, it's pretty simple. Those who know what they're doing can match lead types exactly by the particular isotopes in specific leads, including those used in shot and bullets. -TONY

 

 

So just a few quick facts:

 

Lead poisoning and the deaths caused by it in ALL avian critters, including waterfowl, has been well documented for decades -- and long before the condor project came into being.

 

Perhaps you recently heard that lead shot is no longer legal to hunt waterfowl (banned in 1991) because thousands have died from lead poisoning over the years?? Last I heard, they don't eat paint and garbage from dumpsters.

 

It's pretty simple for researchers to perform a necropsy (that's an autopsy on a non-human) to determine the cause of death. In the majority of cases, lead particles from bullets or lead shot usually indicate the reason. And with a living bird, a simple blood test easily reveals a case of lead poisoning, which sometimes can be treated..

 

The reason we hear more about the condors is because of the status as an endanegred critter and the near 24/7 monitoring of them. Not only do the researchers have the ability to know when a condor has been affected by using the GPS collars as an indication of its non-activity or death, but they regulary trap EVERY bird at least once and often twice a year for testing.

 

Now, if you really want to know more, you can google "lead poisoning in birds," and you will get literally hundreds of links to the research that has been done -- and findings -- by the USF&WS, about every other DNR & G&FD in most states, independent conservation groups and universities over the years.

 

A few of the facts you might find on the various pages:

 

"Seventeen years after nontoxic shot requirements were established for hunting waterfowl, attention has shifted to lead poisoning in other species. These include upland game birds, scavengers (such as vultures, hawks and eagles) and other waterbirds that are exposed to lead through the ingestion of spent lead shot, bullet fragments and fishing sinkers."

 

*****

"Research on lead poisoning has been focused on bird species, with at least two studies indicating that the ban on the use of lead shot for hunting waterfowl in North America has been successful in reducing lead exposure in waterfowl. The authors found that upland game, like doves and quail, and scavenging birds, such as vultures and eagles, continue to be exposed to lead shot, putting some populations (condors in particular) at risk of lead poisoning."

 

*****

 

From the Wisconsin DNR:

 

"In Wisconsin, lead poisoning is a significant mortality factor for the Trumpeter Swan, an endangered species in the state. Of 110 Trumpeter Swan carcasses submitted to the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources (WDNR) for post-mortem examination between 1991 and 2004, 34 deaths (~31%) were attributed to lead poisoning."

 

"Of 559 Bald Eagle carcasses submitted to the WDNR between 1994 and 2003, 68 (~12%) of those deaths were attributed to lead poisoning."

 

A WDNR study published in 2004 found that some American Woodcock in Wisconsin are accumulating unusually high levels of lead in their wing bones. The exact source of the lead is not known at this time, but a dietary source for the lead is likely, and the study could not rule out lead shot in soils as the ultimate source of the lead.

 

In 1992, at least 200-300 Canada Geese died as a result of acute lead poisoning from ingesting lead shot on a former trap and skeet shooting range near Lake Geneva in Walworth County, Wisconsin. The US Environmental Protection Agency reportedly spent ~ $1.88 M on a Superfund cleanup of the site, removing ~28,000 tons of lead-contaminated soils. The most recent large-scale lead poisoning event in Wisconsin occurred when ~200 Canada Geese were collected in 1999 and again in 2000 from a location in Outagamie Co.

 

"Birds Affected by Lead Contamination

 

All bird species are at risk from different types of lead poisoning, but certain types of birds have been found to suffer more from the most prominent sources of lead.

 

Waterfowl: Loons, swans, geese and ducks not only may suffer from lead poisoning if they are shot with lead ammunition, but lost or discarded fishing tackle can be inadvertently consumed and lead to poisoning.

 

Birds of Prey: Eagles, vultures and condors are at the greatest risk of lead poisoning, most commonly from ingesting lead-based ammunition from carrion and carcasses left behind by irresponsible hunters.

 

Game Birds: Game birds hunted with lead-based ammunition can suffer from lead poisoning if they are wounded but not killed, and doves and quail may accidentally consume discarded lead shotgun pellets as grit for their digestive system."

 

****

 

From Michigan DNR:

 

Lead poisoning has been recognized as a mortality factor in waterfowl since the late 1800's. Lead poisoning cases today are either the result of ingestion of spent lead shot or fishing sinkers and jig heads during normal feeding activities. When the lead reaches the acidic environment of the gizzard (ducks, geese and swans) or the ventriculus (loons), it is worn down, dissolved, and absorbed into body tissues. Once the lead reaches toxic levels in the tissues, muscle paralysis and associated complications result in death.

 

Distribution

 

Ducks, geese, swans and loons are the animals most commonly affected by lead ingestion, however, upland game birds including mourning doves, wild turkeys, pheasants, and quail are occasionally affected. Lead poisoning has also been noted in small mammals (raccoon) and raptors, presumably from the ingestion of lead contaminated prey. In ducks, geese and swans, lead poisoning is most commonly seen during migration in the late fall and early spring. In heavily contaminated areas, cases may be seen at any time of year.

 

Transmission and Development

 

When lead is ingested, the pellets, sinkers, or jig heads lie in the gizzard or ventriculus and begin to erode. The lead enters the circulatory system and mimics the movement of calcium. It becomes stored within the bones and is excreted via the bile into the feces.

 

****

 

 

 

Once you read all of the FACTUAL information available, take two aspirins and call me in the morning.

 

Oh, and watch out for that boogeyman behind that bush. He could be from some gubbermint agency.

[Arizona Griz]

And there you have it .

 

Very good post Tony.

[ThomC]

another wolf died. they're droppin' like flies. maybe it's an early Christmas present?

 

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/12/09/20111209injured-wolf-dies-way-veterinarian.html

 

there was another article today about how it's hunter's fault that the condors are gettin' lead poisoning. why is that only condors get it? ravens, eagles, crows, redtail hawks, blue jays, etc, all eat animal guts. why don't they get it too? is there something i don't understand? or could it be BS by the condor folks? surely they wouldn't lie. Lark.

 

 

I dont care that you are from ASU You are right. We need more natural selection to weed out the weak.

[ThomC]

"Once you read all of the FACTUAL information available, take two aspirins and call me in the morning." by outdoor writer.

 

The BIG question what is the FACTUAL information. Al Gore, outdoor writers, scientists, whom among you doesnt have an agenda?

[Guest Del]

I don't see what the big deal is about wolves. They were around before any white man set foot on this land and they didn't kill off anything. Who made a mess with the buffalo? Who killed off the grizzly in Az? Didn't people have something to do with the deer population in the Kaibab too? Live and let live. Idiots.

[Outdoor Writer]

The BIG question what is the FACTUAL information. Al Gore, outdoor writers, scientists, whom among you doesnt have an agenda?

 

Yup, plenty of folks have agendas. Some even have an agenda to make every issue into a conspiracy. Heck, we all know Bush ordered the destruction of the Twin Towers and the mafia assasinated JFK, right?

 

As for MY agenda, it's to report the facts as best I can from as MANY sources as I can. That's what I've done for going on 40 years now. In the case of lead poisoning in avian critters, I believe the dozens upon dozens of "sources" long ago proved the facts, and no amount of rhetoric or hyperbole will disprove them.

 

If someone has a bullet in his brain and no other cause of death is found, could a coroner say without a doubt that person died from a bullet to the head?

 

Guess everyone might decide for themselves if that would be factual or maybe just an "agenda", eh?

 

Oh wait, there are some folks who still don't believe smoking causes cancer.

 

Beam me up, Scotty......

 

 

[Pine Donkey]

I promised myself I would stay out of this one...but I am weak. Are we talking about wolves or hybrid dogs with some wolf genes?

[Outdoor Writer]

I promised myself I would stay out of this one...but I am weak. Are we talking about wolves or hybrid dogs with some wolf genes?

 

 

Depends on who is doing the talking.

 

The conspiracy theory folks will say the wolves are hybrids.

 

The people within the program will say this:

 

"The animals that are present in the Blue Range Wolf Recovery Area (BRWRA)

are not true wolves, and are hybrids."

 

Response:

 

"According to scientists, there are three pure lineages of the Mexican gray wolf: McBride, Ghost Ranch, and Aragon. Geneticists have verified (certified) that all three lineages consist of pure-bred Mexican wolves. Regarding the free-ranging population, there have been two incidents of Mexican wolf-dog hybrid litters conceived in the wild (one in New Mexico, one on the Fort Apache Indian Reservation). Both litters were humanely euthanized after genetic testing verified they were Mexican wolf-dog crosses. Both cases involved a female Mexican wolf breeding with a male dog. Aside from the two hybrid litters that have been discovered, there is no evidence to date to suggest hybridization with dogs or other canids is occurring in the free-ranging Mexican wolf population. Genetic testing and analysis of all captured animals will continue to be an important component of the Mexican wolf reintroduction program. We will continue to investigate genetic data and determine if introgression of either domestic dog or coyote genes has occurred within the Mexican wolf population."