jamaro Report post Posted December 21, 2011 "and if you look at the straight numbers over 70% off goat tags go to NR... I wonder how that would fly in AZ..." Jamaro - how do you figure 70% of goat tags go to NR? A more fair statement may be how many tags are AVAILABLE to residents or AVAILABLE to non-residents. Land Owner tags are AVAILABLE to both residents and non-residents. According to the Game and Fish website draw results - Total Antelope tags issued - 1,937 Issued to Residents - 1,557 Issued to non-resident without guide - 225 Issued to non-resident with guide - 155 If you add all the public draw tags and the LO tags then you get the 64%.... again how would that go in AZ? That is why I said "straight" including LO tags... and I will pull back the numbers are actually 64%... BUT guess who owns the animals? 100% of those are owned by the residents of NM... Not the LO... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
c-ne-elk Report post Posted December 21, 2011 But aren't Land Owner tags available to the Residents too? I know of a group of 5 residents in Las Cruces that buy land owner cow elk tags every year to be able to hunt on a ranch with no one else there. They are willing (and I guess able) to afford this tag. I still say you need to look at the number of tags that are "Available" for each group. I feel you are trying to distort the facts by using this method. AND starting this year, the tags set aside for hunters with an Outfitter are available for Residents too. Regarding the comment on why don't they make all the landowner elk tags cow elk tags since they are for depredation I don't believe that is the way the G&F is thinking. The landowner tags are different than the depredation hunts. The land owner tag is NMG&F way of compensating the landowner for his loss due to the animals. Now I'm not saying that this is correct or that it is legal or illegal but I don't think you want the land owner to get 20 cow tags instead of 5 bull tags. In Wyoming, they pay the rancher for each animal that is killed on his place, guess what, most of that land is still unavailable for anyone to hunt on without a hefty tresspass fee. I don't really have a dog in this hunt as the tags I "try" to draw are in the 6% catagory. I say try as over the years, I have drawn 5 tags (mixture of elk and antelope) in over 50 attempts (every year, multiple species). I don't typically hunt with an outfitter in New Mexico as I live close to New Mexico (3 miles over the state line) so I can do my own scouting, nor have I ever bought a land owner tag BUT I think an outfitter (and more than likely a Resident of New Mexico) has the right to earn a living and I know several ranchers who use the money they make off the landowner tags to help make their ranch payments. As I stated on this forum earlier this year the reduction from 10% of the tags being reduced to 6% really did not bother me that much. I just hope it stops there. In reality, it did not change my chances of being drawn that significally. If you look at the number of applicants -vs- the number of tags available chances just went from slim to slimmer. And on the other hand, it did not really help the resident that significally. Even if you made ALL the tags resident only tags as they have done with the cow tags you are not going to help the resident draw a tag by a significant amount. The fact is that there are way more hunters than there are tags. All New Mexico has accomplished is to alienate themselves with non-resident hunters and hopefully this does not come back to bite New Mexico. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jamaro Report post Posted December 21, 2011 What I am saying is I don't care how the NR gets those tags if over 60% of antelope tags went to NR people in AZ would be raging... Your numbers are the numbers issued thru the draw not LO tags.. The reason we have depredation tags is to alleviate the loss do to animals... They shouldn't be getting tags if there isn't any loss... Your 20 to 5 numbers are backwards... if you want to reduce the herd and the loss of grass you hunt the baby producing cows... not the bulls... With all the cow tags the Residents will gt about 89% of all elk tags... Still nothing like AZ but it is closer.... I just want what AZ has... AZ set the precedent for a lot of things NM is just starting to follow along but now that people are on the other side they don't like it... I just added this as I re-read what you posted but... Yes Outfitters have the right to earn a living but not off of something that is owned by the public... and if a LO's in AZ have proven that you can survive without government handouts.. Maybe our ranchers should be better ranchers... J Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nhunter84 Report post Posted December 29, 2011 Jason, What percentage of tags are available to residents? Every Land Owner Tag out there is available to residents of NM correct? The way I look at it is that the average New Mexican is to cheap to pay for the landowner tag so the non-residents are buying them. That is the only way that 64% of the antelope tags available can be going to Non-residents. If you are so pissed off about the Non-residents getting the tags why dont you start buying them and encouraging other new mexican's to buy them, that will solve the problem of the non residents getting the greater percentage of tags. I personally would rather a LO get a bull tag than the 20 cow tags like you stated. I would rather them make a little money and kill a bull rather than go shoot 20 cows and decrease the overall population by shooting the cows. That would create less elk in a few years and translate to fewer public and private tags. Be careful what you wish for. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
