clean barrel bad shot?

[apache12]

Was down on a hunt this past weekend with some good friends and we got into a debate about a clean barrel vs one shot or more for accuracy. They swore that if I you had a freshly cleaned barrel that the first round fired on a cold barrel would fly funny. Me and another guy disagreed and said they must be using to much oil. Any thoughts on this? They said the powder used now was so clean you didn't need to clean your barrel that often. Wierd to me, I clean my guns after every use.

[deserthntr]

I clean my barrel after every shooting session... usually 20 rounds. But I do have a "fouler" round that I have to shoot that is usually a little off my POI . Then my gun will be dead on. So when I know I won't shoot my gun till the hunt I will clean it and then shoot 1-2 rounds so it is ready to go on the hunt

[dbengraver]

I think its all preference when it comes to how one chooses to keep their rifle barrel clean. I've heard that you must clean after so many rounds ect....My rifle that I shoot has not had the barrel scrubbed or ran a fouler round threw it sense the break in processes just swabbed now and again and was built in 92.My father has a 300 win mag that he bought 34 years ago and the same thing either one of these rifles have had at least on the light side 3000 rounds easy both have been bore scoped a couple of years ago and show minimal ware and build up. just my 2 penny's

[308Nut]

Most rifles will shoot 'funny' for the first 1-3 shots after cleaning. Bullets react differently when subjected to different variables. The variable here is bare steel against the bullet versus powder fouling against the bullet. In some extreme cases, where a load was developed after a certain amount of fouling has occured, it may take 10 or 12 shots after a bare steel cleaning for things to settle back into place.

 

There are few hard and fast rules here but in general, a bullet will shoot differently against bare steel versus a fouled barrel. Therfore as a general rule, many hunters carry a 'clean' rifle with 1-3 foul shots down the barrel. Clean is relative. To me, a clean rifle is one that is clean enough to maintain it's accuracy. But I never hunt with a 'clean' barrel in the sense that it is down to the bare steel.

[ultra300mag]

This will vary from rifle to rifle. I personally always shoot at least one fouler an sometimes two to three. I spent 12 years on SWAT as a sniper and during that time we would always clean our rifles to bare metal (no copper or fowling left) and then would go and shoot a fouler before putting the rifle away. You should one shot following cleaning and see if point of impact is different than from a dirty barrel. If it is not then you are ok. You will find that long range shooters all have our own habits, some are probably just in our mind but in shooting if you think you are going to miss you probably will. Good luck and keep the bullets flying!

[rclouse79]

I actually went out last night to foul my barrel. The first shot from 140 yards was dead on. The second shot from 400 yards was dead on. I called it good after that. From my experience my first shot from a clean barrel seems to group with my other shots, but I still shoot a fouler just to be safe.

[roninflag]

apache- i bet they have never shot a rifle with a krieger barrel. factory barrels or custom barrels each react differently. the factory barrels are tougher to get to shoot good clean of dirty.

[CouesWhitetail]

Most rifles will shoot 'funny' for the first 1-3 shots after cleaning. Bullets react differently when subjected to different variables. The variable here is bare steel against the bullet versus powder fouling against the bullet. In some extreme cases, where a load was developed after a certain amount of fouling has occured, it may take 10 or 12 shots after a bare steel cleaning for things to settle back into place.

 

There are few hard and fast rules here but in general, a bullet will shoot differently against bare steel versus a fouled barrel. Therfore as a general rule, many hunters carry a 'clean' rifle with 1-3 foul shots down the barrel. Clean is relative. To me, a clean rifle is one that is clean enough to maintain it's accuracy. But I never hunt with a 'clean' barrel in the sense that it is down to the bare steel.

 

 

How "funny" do the first three shots act? I mean how far off are you talking..in general. Less than 1/2 inch difference at 200 yds? Or are you talking way off to right or left? I haven't noticed any difference in my gun with it cleaned or uncleaned.

[308Nut]

Most rifles will shoot 'funny' for the first 1-3 shots after cleaning. Bullets react differently when subjected to different variables. The variable here is bare steel against the bullet versus powder fouling against the bullet. In some extreme cases, where a load was developed after a certain amount of fouling has occured, it may take 10 or 12 shots after a bare steel cleaning for things to settle back into place.

 

There are few hard and fast rules here but in general, a bullet will shoot differently against bare steel versus a fouled barrel. Therfore as a general rule, many hunters carry a 'clean' rifle with 1-3 foul shots down the barrel. Clean is relative. To me, a clean rifle is one that is clean enough to maintain it's accuracy. But I never hunt with a 'clean' barrel in the sense that it is down to the bare steel.

 

 

How "funny" do the first three shots act? I mean how far off are you talking..in general. Less than 1/2 inch difference at 200 yds? Or are you talking way off to right or left? I haven't noticed any difference in my gun with it cleaned or uncleaned.

 

It depends on a given rifle and what the shooter's accuracy standards are and their skill level.

 

I have seen some rifle/load combos deliver groups under 1" at 100 yards including the foul shot and others 3" with the foul shot where the rest were in the middle of the target at tight. I know some hunters that concider all bullets within a pie plate at 100 yards acceptable. Others want a nickel size group dead center and other want something in between. For those are happy with a 'happy medium' and those that are happy with groups scattered throught out a pie plate, a foul shot should mean little if anything. Those that would like to keep their bullets in a dime or nickel size group dead center may want to concider a foul shot.

 

Most rifle/load combos only show the 1st shot to be 'funny' however some need two or 3 to group well. Again, few hard and fast rules here. Some are worse than others. Having a spotless barrel may or may not hurt you during the moment of truth. A fouled barrel will never hurt you. If in doubt, foul it out.

[Coach]

I read an article about this a while back. The author's contention was that in a freshly cleaned barrel, all the copper fouling has been removed from the tiny microscopic indentions and pores in the steel. The first shot or two down the barrel fill these back in making a smoother, more consistent path down the barrel. In most cases the 2nd or 3rd through around the 9th would give optimal accuracy.

 

I'm not sure how valid that is, but it made sense to me. Although I would suspect that the effect is generally too small for most people to notice under normal hunting conditions.

 

That slightly too tall or too short rock with a jacket slung over it for a rest, elevated heart rate and heavy breathing, the gloves you didn't practice shooting with but are still wearing, the rush to get the shot off before the animal slips away, the cactus in your armpit while you are trying to lay prone - those are the types of things that generally have a noticable affect on field accuracy.

[Pine Donkey]

So true coach. Also your buddy standing next to you hurrying you along, is usually able to recall every shot you have ever missed, and you don't want to give him another story to tell around the campfire.

[sjvcon]

I have always been told to never clean a rifle after the last range session before you hunt ... other than maybe running a dry patch down the barrel, which I generally do. I am a believer in this, because I usually do experience a "flyer" or two after cleaning ... not extreme, but enough for me to not clean the guns. This is especially true with a muzzleloader. My Smoker can be 4-6" high and right the first shot after cleaning. After that it generally settles in to nice groups.

[apache12]

Wow. From these post, I think I was wrong and my buddies had it right. I need to pay more attention at the range next time. Thanks for all the reply

[rcdinaz]

I don't clean my rifles during hunting season. To be clear I don't clean the barrel down to bare metal I will clean up the action and check the barrel after I am out, no solvents.

 

I also agree that there seems to be less variability in custom barrels. Of course as pointed out a lot of this could be in my head since I have not done any real statistical analysis on % change, in velocity, POI, etc to see how much each rifle changes. Maybe I just expect hope that a $400-$500 barrel will shoot better.

[Coach]

Here's a little support for the claim. These pictures are taken from a Christensen Arms .338 Lapua at 100 yards. In both targets there is a "flyer" marked as "fouling shot" that is clearly separate from the following 3 shots.