Macho B Jr. sighting!!!

[SunDevil]

I wonder if they will have any pics or video on their website.

[azstroops]

Macho B should have been collared several years earlier when he was younger and healthier. That might have told the Jaguar Recovery Team whether and where there was a breeding female in the region, probably in Mexico if there was one. Without any breeding females in the picture, a lone jaguar is just a conversation piece. It can't help sustain the species any more than the occasional male mountain lion that turns up in the Midwest will help restore mountain lions to the Midwest.

 

Any time you capture and collar an animal there is some risk that it will die. That's true of bighorn sheep, pronghorn and other species that are captured for collaring and sometimes transplanting. That's just the way it is. The death of one jaguar out of the thousands living in Mexico, Central American and South America combined is not significant to the future of the species. What is significant is whether US borderlands have a breeding population and thus could play a role in keeping the species going. The last four jaguars found in Arizona have all been males.

 

 

There are certain interests that do not want AGFD involved with jaguars, nor do they want further scientific investigation of jaguars along the border. What they want is to use the Endangered Species Act to control land use and activities there. When Macho B first came to our attention, wildlife biologists wanted to capture and collar it in the hope that the timing and duration of its movements could reveal whether and where it had a lady friend. They encountered fierce opposition from non-profits who did not want that question pursued. I believe it's because they didn't want to risk having it determined that he was simply an itinerant or expatriate male, such as we often see in mountain lions, and that its presence here does not signify a self-sustaining population. These non-profits wanted to quit while they were ahead. The mere prospect of jaguars of southern Arizona gives them enough to put jaguar images on their letterheads, raise funds and clamor for a recovery zone with all its attendant restrictions.

 

USFWS should attempt to capture and collar this animal. If it dies, so be it. It's the animal welfare enthusiast who worries about one animal. True conservationists and ecologists concern themselves with entire species. Whether there is a breeding population near the border should be the basis for whether USFWS establishes a "Jaguary Recovery Zone" there. The agency is presently considering doing just that, and in my opinion their decision should hinge on whether they can locate a female near the border. If not, jaguar recovery along the border is merely an illusion and a hoax. And as noted jaguar expert Alan Rabinowitz has said, establishing a jaguary recovery zone in an area of the US that offers no hope of contributing to recovery can actually hurt the jaguar's future by diverting funds and misleading people into thinking the species is being helped when it really isn't.

 

It is neither fair nor prudent for sportsmen to hammer on AGFD for the death of the last jaguar. They were tricked by a subcontractor and lied to by an employee, and some bad luck was involved as well. Sportsmen need to keep their heads in the game and watch where this thing is going.

 

You hit the nail on the head! I couldn't have said it better myself, no really i couldn't have.

[billrquimby]

Audsley:

 

Great response, Larry! As far as I know there have been no confirmed reports of breeding female jaguars in Arizona in recent times. Did I miss such a report?

 

Bill Quimby

[audsley]

Audsley:

 

As far as I know there have been no confirmed reports of breeding female jaguars in Arizona in recent times. Did I miss such a report?

 

Bill Quimby

 

According to Borderland Jaguars by David E. Brown and Carlos A. Lopez Gonzalez, the last female taken in Arizona was in 1963. Females were also taken in 1949 and 1932, but prior to 1948 fewer than half the recorded kills have sex information. It does appear that there was a breeding population in Arizona in the early 1900s as there are two recorded harvests of females with cubs. Also, the early history shows a very few jaguars ranging pretty far north (Chevelon Canyon, Black River on the WM Apache Res and around Prescott and the Grand Canyon). But most are in southeastern Az.

 

The Brown/Lopez book also provides Sonoran (Mexico) jaguar data from 1900-2000. I looked up the locations where females were taken in the last twenty years. Since most of the locations given are ejidos near small towns and villages, I used Google Earth to see roughly where places like Sahuaripa, Granados, San Javier, Baviacora, etc. are in relation to the border. The northernmost of these little Sierra Madre villages is over 100 miles below the border. There are several that appear to be between 100 and 150 miles south of the border. Evidently there are, or have been, quite a few jaguars in the Sierra Madre forests and surrounding thornscrub about 50-100 miles south of Lake Angustura. Evidently the jags have been holding their own there at least until recent times.

[ThomC]

Wonder how long it will take AZGFD too kill this one

 

You're a dumbass!

 

Yes, in many ways I am. You're correct. But please, tell me how Macho B died?

 

I could be wrong bt I do believe it was directly at the cause of azgfd, was it not?

 

You are wrong.

[AZLance]

Casey, you are exactly right!

[Coues&Bass]

A Cochise County hunting guide and his daughter, along with several hunting dogs who usually hunt mountain lions as a hobby told an Arizona Daily Star reporter that they treed a rare jaguar, last Saturday, in a canyon south of Interstate 10.

Donnie Fenn, 32, and his daughter told the reporter, “It’s the most amazing thing that’s ever happened to me.” “I was nervous, scared, everything. That was an experience I’ll never forget. It was just the aggressiveness – the power it had, the snarling. It wasn’t a snarl like a lion. It was a roar. I’ve never heard anything like it,” said Fenn.

They first spotted the jaguar atop a mesquite tree from about 200 yards away. Then, after Fenn left to call Game and Fish officials to seek advice on handling the situation, the jaguar left that tree and raced away, with Fenn’s hounds in pursuit.

Eventually, the dogs caught up to and surrounded the jaguar, who clawed some of them and caused some puncture wounds as he tried to get away, Fenn said.

Apparently, the jaguar was able to escape the hounds.

It was the first confirmed jaguar sighting in the U.S. since the death of Macho B in March 2009.

[DesertBull]

Wonder how long it will take AZGFD too kill this one

 

You're a dumbass!

 

Yes, in many ways I am. You're correct. But please, tell me how Macho B died?

 

I could be wrong bt I do believe it was directly at the cause of azgfd, was it not?

 

You are wrong.

 

I thought it was some rougue scientist that went out on her own. Or was that just the story we were fed to cover up the dirty deed?

 

Anyhow, I could care less if the cat lives or dies as long the whacko's don't get to use it as a pawn to close down access.

[audsley]

Sportsmen will need to have our act together or else the whackos will close us down.

 

Arizona should be kept hospitable to jaguars, but there should be no restrictions beyond leaving them alone. The future of the jaguar does not depend on what happens in Arizona. Rather it depends on what happens in Mexico. Kind of like another species I can think of, which is called the Mexican gray wolf, not the Arizona gray wolf, for a good reason.

 

Personally, I very much like having these things around. It isn't the wolves or the jaguars that bother me. It's the people who exploit them for money and power under the pretense that they are helping to save thedr species, which they are not.

[Mr. Jonathan]

Sportsmen will need to have our act together or else the whackos will close us down.

 

Arizona should be kept hospitable to jaguars, but there should be no restrictions beyond leaving them alone. The future of the jaguar does not depend on what happens in Arizona. Rather it depends on what happens in Mexico. Kind of like another species I can think of, which is called the Mexican gray wolf, not the Arizona gray wolf, for a good reason.

 

Personally, I very much like having these things around. It isn't the wolves or the jaguars that bother me. It's the people who exploit them for money and power under the pretense that they are helping to save thedr species, which they are not.

 

 

Glad to hear a response like this; it's a breath of fresh air. Thank you Audsley!

[billrquimby]

Larry:

 

Don't know if the Brown/Lopez-Gonzalez book mentioned Curtis Prock releasing jaguars for canned hunts in the early 1960s, but I would suspect that it did. Wonder if that 1963 female was one of his?

 

Bill Quimby

 

 

Audsley:

 

As far as I know there have been no confirmed reports of breeding female jaguars in Arizona in recent times. Did I miss such a report?

 

Bill Quimby

 

According to Borderland Jaguars by David E. Brown and Carlos A. Lopez Gonzalez, the last female taken in Arizona was in 1963. Females were also taken in 1949 and 1932, but prior to 1948 fewer than half the recorded kills have sex information. It does appear that there was a breeding population in Arizona in the early 1900s as there are two recorded harvests of females with cubs. Also, the early history shows a very few jaguars ranging pretty far north (Chevelon Canyon, Black River on the WM Apache Res and around Prescott and the Grand Canyon). But most are in southeastern Az.

 

The Brown/Lopez book also provides Sonoran (Mexico) jaguar data from 1900-2000. I looked up the locations where females were taken in the last twenty years. Since most of the locations given are ejidos near small towns and villages, I used Google Earth to see roughly where places like Sahuaripa, Granados, San Javier, Baviacora, etc. are in relation to the border. The northernmost of these little Sierra Madre villages is over 100 miles below the border. There are several that appear to be between 100 and 150 miles south of the border. Evidently there are, or have been, quite a few jaguars in the Sierra Madre forests and surrounding thornscrub about 50-100 miles south of Lake Angustura. Evidently the jags have been holding their own there at least until recent times.

[audsley]

Hmmm... a retired G&F supervisor mentioned that individual to me a while back. I'll ask him what he thinks.

[June]

34 Bee?

[.270]

as far as Az is from real jag country i would suspect that what we see are males looking for a mate. this just ain't jag country. they are at home in jungles and water. all we have ever had here is what they call a transient population. i've read the same thing about the spotted owls.

 

macho b was snared by an azgfd biologist. who was supposed to be snaring bears or lions, and some hairy armpitted hippie broad that worked for some so called jag defense agency or some deal. they actually stoled jag crap from a zoo to bait him in with and then lied about it. that's why the azgfd employee got fired. the stress of the capture is significant even on healthy animals, and after a couple days they decided to euthanize him. said he was dieing of kindey failure. nobody really knows for sure if the snaring caused it to speed up or what the deal was, but the fact remains that if they would have left him alone the poor ol' critter coulda died on his own terms. instead he died that way. casey is right. without the unauthorized and possible illegal interference of an agent of the azgfd, we wouldn't be having this arguement. the azgfd lost a lotta credibility and crapped all over themselves on this deal. they handled it very poorly from the snaring to the investigation and ended up having to eat their own to save face. last i knew, the lawsuits are ongoing. i truly hoped the folks involved were prosecuted, but it don't look like that will happen.

 

weren't the jags curtis got in trouble over pets he bought from somebody? at least one cat was a leopard. seems like some lions might have been involved too. i can't imagine anybody hauling a caged jag from south America to the states without gettin' his head ate off. and the trouble he got it was in new mex too.

 

jags are one cool cat. big and deadly and mean. dog fighters extraordinaire. but we ain't never had more than a few lost ones in the states. that's why we still see one every once in a while. the keep wandering around. i don't think any of em are born even near here. but if we ain't careful they will turn into a bigger fiasco that the stinkin' wolf dogs. Lark.

[billrquimby]

Lark:

 

Not sure where Prock got his jaguars, but I would guess he bought them through exotic animal dealers, who got them from zoos and other sources. Although the Endangered Species Act makes things more complicated now, there still are people buying and selling all kinds of animals.

 

Prock also did a lot of hunting in Belize, and could have caught jaguars there and had them shipped up here. This was before the strict wildlife laws we now have and there also still were many roadside "zoos" all over the country.

 

He was convicted in Arizona of canned black bear (not jaguar) hunting after an investigation by AZGFD wildlife manager Robert Hernbrode Sr., father of the recently retired Arizona Game and Fish Commissioner.

 

After leaving Arizona, Prock was convicted in New Mexico of releasing at least three jaguars and was strongly suspected of releasing two or more jaguars here. One was killed by Jacques Herter, owner of the big mail-order company in Wisconsin, near Pena Blanca lake. An instant expert, Herter went home and wrote a book with a title something like, "How to Hunt Jaguars." It was listed in his company's catalogues for many years, even after Prock's convictions in Arizona and New Mexico.

 

I read somewhere that Prock had died this year in Payson. He was in his nineties.

 

Bill Quimby