coueswhisperer Report post Posted November 10, 2011 Just harvested a spike buck today. Jumped a 3x2 on Friday no shot possible, and a fork today, missed the fork @ about 250 yards he was running.I wasn't able to hunt Saturday,Sunday,Monday or Tuesday. Decided to take the first buck I saw cause time is running out and won't be able to go out on Thursday .After I carried my buck back to my truck, two of the ranch hands that work for the Navarro Ranch came up to where I was.We started talking about hunting and all of the illegal activities taking place in their ranch. I gave them a rear hind quarter from my deer, which they gladly accepted.They told me it was the first time anybody offered to share some deer meat with them. I did it cause we are guests in their Ranch and would hate to lose access into their property. They were telling me that last year they ran into two hunters that had discarded the whole body of the deer they shot and were only after the antlers.I believe that actions like that give hunters a bad name.They also mentioned that they need help controlling the mountain lion and coyote population, cause they are killing their cattle. I hunt the area off of Ocotillo Ranch Rd. So please lets give these guys a hand and not abuse the privilege of being allowed access on their ranch. If we shot all the big ones and leave all the small ones eventually we will end up with forks and spikes (genetics). I suggest we take a small deer every once in a while, they all taste the same. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gotcoues Report post Posted November 10, 2011 Very nice gesture on giving some of your meat away. Also, I believe predator hunting helps tremendously in supporting deer populations and certainly benefits the rancher. Your last argument doesn't make sense to me though. If a younger animal gets a chance to breed, but he holds good genetics he will pass those on. When you take a mature coues out of the population he has already passed his genetics on (good or bad) genetics can only be manipulated in a controlled environment ie: high fence scenario. If every strived to take bigger deer, then my guess would be we'd all see more mature bucks because all the small would have more time to grow and the age class average would go up. Again, can't really manipulate this scenario either I guess. Do enjoy reading posts about deer management though. Hope this topic takes off a bit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SunDevil Report post Posted November 10, 2011 wish I could find the article I read just last week on spike bucks. basically they removed all the spikes from a high fence ranch before the breeding season. the next year there were fewer spike bucks born. the avg number of antler points for the 1.5 year old deer the next year was higher than the previous year because the genetically inferior spike bucks were removed from the breeding population. they did acknowledge that they would have no way of knowing if this would hold true in the wild. comes back to the debate as to if a spike buck is just a young deer or a genetically inferior deer from an antler configuration stand point. I tend to lean towards the later. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BirdDog20 Report post Posted November 10, 2011 I too don't think that taking out the little bucks will necessarily do anything for the genetics in the area. You really can't tell what the genetic makeup is on a spike or forkie at such a young age. For several years though, we took out small 3 pointers in 36A that had little claw pinchers coming off the main beam. Picked those guys out and sacrificed a tag to keep them from reproducing. Out of curiosity ... and I ask because I don't know ... Do does carry genetics for antler characteristics even though it is a male specific characteristic. I tend to think yes, which means you can't completely weed out poor racks since we can't tell with the does and can't take them out even if we could. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elkhunter Report post Posted November 10, 2011 Yes does do carry the genetic make up for antlers, they do carry that genetic code and can pass it on to their offsprings. Same way for humans in terms of sometimes a woman's son would have the same physical size/looks as that woman's father or grandpa. I too don't think that taking out the little bucks will necessarily do anything for the genetics in the area. You really can't tell what the genetic makeup is on a spike or forkie at such a young age. For several years though, we took out small 3 pointers in 36A that had little claw pinchers coming off the main beam. Picked those guys out and sacrificed a tag to keep them from reproducing. Out of curiosity ... and I ask because I don't know ... Do does carry genetics for antler characteristics even though it is a male specific characteristic. I tend to think yes, which means you can't completely weed out poor racks since we can't tell with the does and can't take them out even if we could. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobbyo Report post Posted November 10, 2011 Lets kill does then and just leave the antlered bucks to pass on the good gene's! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BirdDog20 Report post Posted November 10, 2011 Yep. Think male pattern baldness. Lol. Well, in that case, we can only weed out half the equation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
coueswhisperer Report post Posted November 11, 2011 I talked to the cowhands again (36a) and they told me that they know of three different Mountain Lions and a couple of "feral" dog packs out there. Some people are dumping their dogs out there and they are forming packs and causing havoc.They usually hang out just north of the McGee settlement and south of the power lines. They think the lions come down at night around water holes and large dry arroyos and move back up in the morning.They told me to be careful with the drug runners up in the mountains (NW) part of the Sierrita's especially after dark.They are armed and will shoot with out question, cause they don't want somebody to contact BP, and there is an ongoing battle between them and the "bajadores" or border bandits.They have been knocking their fences down to cross unobstructed through the desert. I don't want to scare people but be careful. As far as the genetics part ,I guess most hunters have been trying to take the bigger bucks since hunting became a sport rather than a means of survival, and there are still big deer out there.So GOOD HUNTIN' and GOOD TIMES. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BirdDog20 Report post Posted November 11, 2011 Good info. The one time i saw a mountain lion was in 36A / Sierritas and our truck got broken into on the west side of the Batamote Hills. It was years ago, but we saw a 120 point head down by the ranch house. There was another good sized buck bedded with it dwarfed the other which was close to 100 pts. Tough area to hunt though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigorange Report post Posted November 13, 2011 +1 on giving away a quarter of your deer to the rancher and keeping up good relations. In some areas if the ranchers decide to restrict public access the hunting possibilities will go way down. All it takes is a couple bad apples to ruin it for all of us and positive gestures can go a long way. Nice buck too...I'll say again that to me any coues is a trophy! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
