How to get drawn!

[DesertBull]

I thought this was kind of ironic.

 

Arizona Game & Fish: How to Beat the Odds to Get Drawn, with Leonard Ordway

 

 

http://www.sportsexpos.com/index.cfm?fusea...ocationNumber=6

[KGAINES]

Any one of us could do that, apply for october coues, cow elk limited opportunity, or apply for bonus points you will get those.

[AZP&Y]

This would be interesting to see what the "strategy" is ...???

 

And then you've got Chuck Adams over there in the corner laughing and saying "beat the odds" yeah right. Like " I have to worry about that problem"

 

Of all of the things that Az Game and Fish could be "promoting" the DRAW seems to DRAW the most attention????

 

 

AzP&Y

[KGAINES]

Maybe sliding a 50 or 100 bill into the envelope would be a good strategy, being a world renowned hunter with unlimited cash and sponsors isn't a strategy it is a guarantee.

[DesertBull]

I highly doubt that Chuck Adams has unlimited amounts of cash. Even so, there is nothing to be ashamed of if you are wealthy, as long as you aquired it legally. Seems like being wealthy is considered a crime these days.

 

Just because a guy is living his dream, doesn't mean he is rich, unethical, or undeserving. Not many of us have the drive or ambition to make a living at what we love to do. I'll bet he got laughed at plenty when he was asked how he was going to earn a living. Hey Chuck, what do you want to be when you grow up? "I'm going to be a professional bowhunter!" Yeah right, ya crazy fool!

[KGAINES]

DesertBull I didn't say it was a bad thing, heck if any of us had that oppurtunity we would take it, and he wouldn't be wealthy or famous if it wasn't for guys like us that read about, watch him, or listen to his seminars.

[AZP&Y]

My personal opinion is that more public pressure needs to be put on TOP NOTCH hunters that don't have to compete with the "general public" during the draw process!

 

Jim Zumbo sure felt the heat a couple of years ago.

 

Fair Draw no problem - Hunt On - Special priveleges (no way).

 

I have the utmost respect for Chuck Adams and ALL that he has accomplished in the world of bowhunting. He has ELEVATED it to a new level.

 

Here's an article from Zumbo regarding 'special priveledges' ....

Dear sportsmen and sportswomen,

 

Thank you for your email in reference to my association with George Taulman, owner of United States Outfitters (USO), and my drawing of an Arizona elk tag.

 

I'll try to answer your questions.

 

As I see it, there are three separate endeavors that George Taulman is involved in. There is George Taulman the outfitter, George Taulman the licensing agent, and George Taulman the litigant who sued in the Arizona court.

 

I've known George Taulman ever since he started outfitting about 15 years ago. My first hunt with Taulman was with General Chuck Yeager in 1989 as a fund-raiser for Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation. I've hunted with Taulman a number of times since then, and practically all those hunts were with my editors from New York who wanted an elk hunt, and also with Tony Knight, owner of Knight Modern Muzzleloaders. Tony and I hunted several times withGeorge to test new firearms that Tony was developing. Most of those hunts were unguided on public land. George essentially provided a bunk and meals, but I had my personal vehicle, and Tony and I hunted on our own, mostly on the Lincoln National Forest in New Mexico. For the record, I have not hunted elk with George Taulman for the last six years.

 

Taulman started his licensing business about 12 years ago, and he's been applying me to hunts since that time. This is how it works. For a fee, USO acts as my power of attorney and applies me to different units in different states. As one who makes a living writing about hunting, and now TV shows, I hunt in as many varied places as possible. It's not uncommon for me to hunt two-dozen states each year. My average is 20 states per year, and I'm on the road 200 plus days a year. Obviously, it's an advantage for me to have a licensing agent to take care of the details and paperwork. As you and half the west now know, I drew an elk tag in Arizona this year. I believe I had five bonus points when I drew the elk tag. The last tag I drew through USO was in 2001, and that was a moose tag in Utah. I had been applying for that tag for about 15 years. Since 2001, I have failed to draw at least 100 tags that I had applied for through USO.

 

As far as the court case, I am in no way involved in this litigation. Anyone who assumes that I am is misinformed. Here's my take on this. When Taulman first told me about this litigation effort, I was not in approval if it meant that I had to share equally my tag with nonresidents. As a Wyoming resident, for example, I have the privilege of having priority over tags because I'm a resident, as all of you do in your home state. I can buy an elk or deer tag at Wal-Mart, but you, as a nonresident, must apply. I believe in states rights. Even though much wildlife ranges on federal land, I believe that a resident should have some sort of preference, but I also believe that you as a nonresident should be able to hunt here as well. In fact, I lived in Utah for 14 years, and continually applied for Wyoming tags, but couldn't draw. I became so frustrated that I moved here!

 

There are currently some unfair practices that discriminate against nonresidents. In North Dakota, nonresidents cannot hunt turkeys. In California and South Dakota, nonresidents cannot hunt elk. In Idaho, only residents could hunt moose until two years ago, even though most moose lived on federal land. That law was rightfully changed recently. In my home state of Wyoming, a nonresident cannot hunt a wilderness area without a guide. That is a bad law, inferring that you nonresidents aren't as savvy about survival and woods skills as a resident is. I know some Wyoming hunters who would get lost when thy got out of sight of a paved road, and I know nonresidents that are outstanding woodsmen.

 

I don't know where this litigation will go. From what I understand, it's possible that in the extreme scenario, in all states, the tags will be allocated 50-50. In other words, a nonresident can have as much a chance to hunt here in Wyoming as I can. When that happens, I won't be a happy camper, if I cannot buy a general tag in my own state. You, as a nonresident, might be a very happy camper, but you won't like it when YOU have to draw against nonresidents on a 50-50 basis in your own state. Arizona is different, as are a few other states, where even residents have to draw, and cannot just buy a general license. So you see, this is a double-edged sword. Nobody wins But we hunters lose. This is another example of how we shoot ourselves in the foot, by bickering and arguing. The animal rights people love it. Trust me, I've interviewed many of them, and situations like this are exactly what they want to see.

 

I can certainly understand why Arizona residents are upset. I would be, too, if I was in that situation. I'm not sure exactly how this draw worked, but I'm told that I, and other nonresidents, were drawn specifically because of Taulman's litigation. Frankly, I had no clue that this was all going on, and I was surprised to get the tag. I also believe I've been unfairly broadsided by some of you who have made erroneous assumptions about my relationship with George Taulman. Again, I had no part in the litigation.

 

For your information, I will not hunt Arizona for elk this year. This decision did not come about because of the negative communications I've received. I love a good fight, but this is not a good fight. It's divisive. It's bad for hunters and hunting. Sure, I could hunt Arizona and perhaps kill the biggest bull of my life. I will not hunt there to make my point.

 

I hope this all ends peacefully, but right now it is a volatile issue. Thanks again for writing, even those of you who want me tarred and feathered. Believe it or not, I try to represent all hunters in my work. I'm a board member of the United States Sportsmen's Alliance, a national group headed by Dick Cabela that lobbies for hunting everywhere against anti-hunters. I preach hunting ethics and fair chase in everything I write. I can assure you that I have never asked for or received favoritism. Many people believe that because of my status in a national hunting magazine, I get strings pulled. I have honestly never known that to happen.

 

I'll be presenting more details and new developments on this issue in an upcoming issue of Outdoor Life magazine.

 

Good hunting,

 

Jim Zumbo

[KGAINES]

Not that it matters but I read a while back that Jim Shockey ( another uso guy ) was hunting in iran, how can he get into iran and hunt when it seems like they want to kill any american they can, and did he pay to hunt there, maybe they wanted our new muzzloader technology to try and figure out how to launch a nuke at us.

[bullwidgeon]

Jim Shockey is a canuck. According to the media, most canucks probably agree with Iran and Iran's policies more than they do for the U.S. and our policies.

 

Bret M.

[AZP&Y]

From his own website and hunting adventures :

I'M BACK SAFE AND SOUND FROM HUNTING IN THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF IRAN! HERE'S THE SCOOP ON THE HUNT!

Posted on 1/3/2005 2:17:00 PM

I hunted with Iranian outfitter Siamak Khonsari, info@persianshikar.com a really nice guy and his team of professional guides, including the legendary Iranian sheep guide, Mahmoud Sakhtbaz. We had a great time, right from the first bowl of sheep?s head soup to the last demitasse of tea! I had some technical difficulties with my muzzleloader, not sure what the problem was, might have bent the barrel I?m guessing, but did manage to get a really nice world muzzleloading record Red Sheep. I booked the hunt through renowned booking agent Kaan Karakaya info@shikarsafaris.com

 

I?ll be writing articles about that hunt soon, and don?t have the space here to go into details, but I?ll definitely go back some day. It was safe, the people were very nice to us and even Cody ?Une-cheli? Robbins stopped being scared by the end of the hunt! Of course, I did continually tell him I was going to get the first ?kill shot? when the terrorists abducted us and needed someone to video Cody getting his head cut off! I know, it?s black humour and in poor taste, but I couldn?t resist seeing the demoralizing effect it had on Cody.

 

 

We flew from Iran to Turkey to hunt for ibex there with Kaan?s outfit. We had a wonderful time, saw lots of game, but I didn?t get an ibex. My muzzleloader was giving me fits and you just can?t go borrow a Knight from the locals. We had a super time with Riza, Kaan?s head guide. I?ll definitely go back again, except I?ll bring two guns next time!

[KGAINES]

Well I got news for canada, if iran happens to lob a missile our way there is no way to know for sure if it will hit us or them or anybody for that matter, but their accuracy with long range missiles sucks from what I hear. They are enriching uranium ( for nuclear power ), and inspectors aren't allowed in, but Jim Shockey is hunting sheep and having a grand time with the nutcases.

[azhuntnut]

George probably started off as a true hunter, but then took it to the next level and eventually it turned into greed.

Jim, It took alot of will power to frame that tag you drew, but it showed everybody that you have some morals. There were some other recognizable names that drew trophy bull tags that decided to use them. I hope there actions have a monetary affect on there careers. I will step down now. David

[DesertBull]

I, myself, thought it was stupid for him not to use it. He took the easy way out. He could have went on the hunt, and wrote a story about how USO was tearing apart the hunting community and ruining the best elk hunting in America. He didn't hurt USO by not going, he only excused himself from controversy and wasted a tag that a lot of people would have loved to have.

[KGAINES]

I think there were a lot of tags that got wasted that year, and the fact that the named the additional people that drew tags is what caused them not to hunt, it might have been for fear of the backlash by residents

[kwp]

Getting back to the idea of game and fish holding a class on How to get drawn, I think that it is a good idea and have wondered why they haven't already been doing it. At the recent meeting in Tucson about the hunt structure changes they said that the two biggest complaints were that people were sick of not getting drawn and that the regs were too complicated (probably the same people complaing). I still think that in AZ if you know what to put in for it is pretty easy to get drawn for a tag almost every year. Most of the people in this forum know the regs pretty well and understand that when they put in for the better quality hunts that you won't get drawn every year. We all understand this but are willing to wait for the good tag. The people that are complaining mostly are the ones that really don't care what they get drawn for, they just want a tag. Having this class earlier would probably have eliminated a lot of the complaints that caused the whole hunt structure changes. I think that there are a lot of people that don't know that the draw odds and success rates are on the last few pages of the regs.