Crossbows????

[ratherbehunting]

Sounds like the rich crossbow manufacturer's have their hooks in the AZGFD....?

 

Notice of Exempt Rulemaking to amend R12-4-304

 

Oct. 28, 2011

 

Comments accepted through Nov. 16

 

The Arizona Game and Fish Department proposes to amend R12-4-304 to implement recently passed legislation and increase hunter opportunity by expanding allowable methods for the take of wild mammals, birds, and reptiles. Amendments are also proposed to make the rule less restrictive, increase clarity, and improve consistency with other subsections of the rule. Amendments include:

 

Clarifying the use of crossbows; this is proposed to improve consistency and reduce confusion among hunters regarding the use of crossbows.

 

Allowing crossbows and bows that are drawn and held with an assisting device for the take of specific wildlife; this is proposed to make the rule less restrictive, increase clarity, and improve consistency with other subsections of the rule.

 

Reducing the minimum standard pull weight for bows; this is proposed to reflect current technological advances.

 

Allowing the take of mountain lion with shotgun shooting shot. This amendment was requested by members of the public during previous hunt guideline discussions. The Department believes this is an effective and ethical method of take and anticipates that the additional number of mountain lions taken using this method will be minimal.

 

Allowing the take of javelina and turkey with rimfire handguns. This amendment was requested by members of the public during previous hunt guideline discussions. The Department believes this is an effective and ethical method of take.

 

Allowing the take of upland game birds and Eurasian collared doves with a pneumatic weapon. This amendment was requested at a public Commission Meeting. The Department believes this is an effective and ethical method of take and does not in conflict with the Migratory Bird Treaty Act.

 

Allowing the take of cottontail rabbits, tree squirrels, upland game birds, and Eurasian collared doves with pneumatic weapons and hand-held projectiles. This amendment was requested by members of the public during previous hunt guideline discussions. The Department believes this is an effective and ethical method of take.

 

Allowing the take of coyotes and mountain lions with artificial light. This is proposed to give the commission the authority to open a season allowing the take of coyotes or mountain lions from dusk to dawn in game management units where coyote or mountain lion depredation on antelope, mule deer, and bighorn sheep are considered to be a significant factor in recruitment.

 

Clarifying that pursuit with dogs for cottontail rabbits, tree squirrels, upland game birds, and birds is a lawful activity. This amendment was requested at a public commission meeting. While this activity is currently allowed, it is not addressed in rule.

 

Allowing an individual to use dogs as a lawful method to take predatory and furbearing animals, small game, and nongame mammals. This amendment was requested at a public commission meeting. The sport of using dogs to pursue and take wildlife has existed in North America since colonial days. This rule amendment clarifies that the take of predatory and furbearing animals, small game, and nongame mammals with dogs is a lawful activity.

 

Referring to the Raymond Wildlife Area by providing the Game Management Units (GMU) instead of the Wildlife Area. This is proposed to reduce confusion regarding GMU boundaries.

The commission approved the Notice of Proposed Rulemaking at the Oct. 14, 2011 commission meeting and will review the final rulemaking at the Dec. 2, 2011 commission meeting. To view the Notice of Exempt Rulemaking, visit http://www.azgfd.gov/inside_azgfd/rules/rulemaking_updates.shtml.

 

The Department will accept comments through Nov. 16; to submit comments, call (480) 528-7986 or e-mail DMcGehee@azgfd.gov or rulemaking@azgfd.gov.

 

 

The Arizona Game and Fish Department prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, color, sex, national origin, age, or disability in its programs and activities. If anyone believes that they have been discriminated against in any of the AGFD’s programs or activities, including employment practices, they may file a complaint with the Director's Office, 5000 W. Carefree Highway, Phoenix, AZ 85086-5000, (602) 942-3000, or with the Fish and Wildlife Service, 4040 N. Fairfax Dr. Ste. 130, Arlington, VA 22203. Persons with a disability may request a reasonable accommodation or this document in an alternative format by contacting the Director's Office as listed above.

[yotebuster]

Yeah the crossbow manufacturers are corporate evil

 

To me it says nothing about making them legal for archery seasons, just that they are clarifying their use, i.e. can you use them during general rifle seasons, for coyotes and rabbits, etc. I'm pretty sure crossbow manufacturers had nothing to do with this.

[pwrguy]

I would have to see the specific wording, it doesn't look like they are talking about making it legal for archery seasons. I think crossbows could be a fun seperate hunt that is specific to crossbows only. It seems like the main fear of crossbows to most hunters is clasifying them with other bows that have to be held.

[tjhunt2]

Crossbows can be used during the archery season. A special permit is required.

 

TJ

[Red Rabbit]

Here are the proposed amendments:

http://www.azgfd.gov/inside_azgfd/rules/documents/R12-4-304NERM.pdf

 

For Crossbows, looks like the requirement for a crossbow permit for those with permanent disabilities is being eliminated for most species, hence making it legal to use a crossbow if not disabled . I did not see a change to allow crossbows during archery deer season by a change to R12-4-216

The use of lights at night for predators would not allow a light attached to or used from a vehicle. See D-6.

 

For Deer, Crossbows are currently legal in the general and muzzleloader seasons without the disability permit. A disability permit would still be needed for the archery season (as I read it).

 

HOWEVER, what I see if I read correctly is allowing crossbows in archery elk seasons, for example. Right now, I see crossbows allowed in only archery seasons with the disability permit under R12-4-216. But the proposed amendment is striking out the wording

 

"For individuals holding a crossbow permit issued under R12-4-216," which to me would appear to make crossbows legal in archery elk seasons.

The R12-4-216 wording is struck in other other species too. Wonder if the goal of AZGFD is to ultimately allow crossbows in archery season for all species?

If so,I would be opposed to this. Now one would be able to have the bow/crossbow drawn and locked for any period of time, and not have to worry about having the draw motion seen by the game, or having to let down because one cannot hold the draw forever. Kind of defeats archery as being a limited weapon, imo. Also, I see the draw and increased accuracy potentially increasing harvest, and as a result decreasing the archery permit numbers.

 

If this is to add clarity to the regs, I am still muddled. How is one to submit comments if the intended results and legality of crossbow use is not stated.

 

Doug~RR

[dalbo413]

Its definitely unclear if the change would affect the archery only hunts.

I went ahead and sent them my comments anyway.

 

I wouldn't have a problem as long as crossbows are not allowed during archery seasons exept

As currently allowed for disabled hunters.

 

In case the commission was toying with the idea of allowing them during archery hunts I went

Ahead and explained why I'm opposed to doing so.

 

it may attract new hunters and increase hunter opportunity in the short term, but as success increases tag numbers decrease and otc hunts would become draw hunts. IE. Less hunter opportunity in the long term

.

[Red Rabbit]

From an email I received back from AZGFD after inquiring, crossbows or bows with a "draw-lock" would NOT be allowed in any "archery only" season under the proposed rule changes (unless one has the 90% disability crossbow permit as allowed under R12-4-216).

[COUESAZ]

Oh crap. You have to have a 90 percent disability in one arm to get the permit. I was just put on disability in both arms but even together they do not add up to 90 percent. But my restrictions are no more then 20 pounds with either arm. And I am not to do continuos gripping with either hand or twisting of either elbow. I was hoping to be able to continu hunting during archery season. The pain in my arms is way to much to ever draw a regular bow again.

[Red Rabbit]

You could still apply for the crossbow permit and see what AZGFD decides.

[.270]

what is wrong with using a crossbow? ain't they been usin' em since the dark ages? (the real dark ages, not the carter, clinton and obama years) i qualify for a permit to use one during archery season because of a total shoulder joint replacement. the 90% deal is sorta up to the dr. you don't have to be 90% disabled in an arm, but you have to be 90% in what it takes to shoot a bow. the only restriction the dr put on my shoulder was things that pulled on it, like a bow. been thinking real serious about getting one and trying it during archery seasons. i have a good friend who was born missing a hand and he has been using one for many years, with great success. they make some really slick ones these days. but man they are 'spensive. i still don't understand the big deal against using them if you're disabled or during firearm season. don't know if i agree with the night hunting deal either. guess it's ok in the context they say, but i sure hope they don't start allowing open night hunting for varmints. talk about something that will screw up a lotta things. Lark.

[Scooter]

Why is everyone so afraid of crossbows during archery season??? They do it in Texas... I have known alot of guys who shoot and hunt with crossbows- and those things are no more/less effective in an average persons hands than any modern compound bow is in well-trained hands. Do you think they can accurately sling a bolt more than 100 yards??? My compound bow can, heck my recurve can... but I sure can't!

 

It's time to stop the needless manner-of-take regulations... Two seasons are all that are necessary- one for bullets, one for pointy sticks. Get the Government out of our lives wherever possible.

 

It costs the sportsmen-taxpayers (license derived revenue) millions of $$$ to do stupid research projects and town hall meetings on these issues... maybe we could just save the money and the trouble. Really, do you care whether or not a guy shoots his ONE deer per calendar year with a Matthews, or a Barnett? I don't give a flying flip~

[ratherbehunting]

Why is everyone so afraid of crossbows during archery season??? They do it in Texas...

 

I think you answered your own question with "they do it in Texas"....no offense but they also fence off all their deer and have turned hunting into a pastime for the uberrich.

 

It's hard enough to get drawn for archery elk or kaibab deer without crossbows getting in the mix.

 

Now if it just about a disabled guy getting a fair shot then that is a different story...same with small game - I am all for it,

[Coach]

Why is everyone so afraid of crossbows during archery season??? They do it in Texas...

 

I think you answered your own question with "they do it in Texas"....no offense but they also fence off all their deer and have turned hunting into a pastime for the uberrich.

 

It's hard enough to get drawn for archery elk or kaibab deer without crossbows getting in the mix.

 

Now if it just about a disabled guy getting a fair shot then that is a different story...same with small game - I am all for it,

 

 

My sentiments, exactly. Well said.

[standman]

Personally I don't have a big problem with crossbows. What I would like to see added to the crossbow rule is say that a person over seventy years of age could use one during archery season. My dad, 72, every year for him it gets harder and harder to draw a bow. Bow hunting is what he had done all his life and now 42 lbs is getting hard to draw for him. He just doesn't have the upper body strength anymore. Yet he will never qualify for the 90 % rule. This way he could still have the archery feel of a hunt. Just my .02

 

Brian

[billrquimby]

I really don't care if crossbows are authorized for use by everyone during archery seasons. I'm convinced that someone who knows how to shoot a modern compound bow will be better equipped and kill more game.

 

In the early 1980s, right after I began editing Safari Magazine, I contacted all known manufacturers of crossbows and asked to borrow their best hunting crossbows for use in an article I eventually wrote. I got eight or nine bows, and fired all of them through a chronograph and at targets ranging from five to 75 yards away. I also did some penetration tests.

 

What I found surprised me: the compound bows of the time were far superior to every crossbow I tested.

 

The only advantage I could find was that all of the crossbows had scopes mounted on them, which made seeing the target easier. They did not make the crossbow more accurate or shoot farther than a compound bow. In fact, arrows fired from compound bows with lighter draw weights flew flatter, farther and faster, and penetrated deeper into the wet telephone books I used. I needed to nearly double the draw weight of a crossbow to reach the velocities of arrows shot from a compound.

 

It was my opinion after shooting hundreds of those short crossbow bolts with broadhead and target points that cow chips would have better trajectories. This was before hunters had range finders, and misjudging distance by even three or four yards would have resulted in a total miss on a deer with every one of the scope-mounted crossbows I tested.

 

As for hunting with a crossbow, a crossbow truly is a single-shot weapon. No self-respecting deer would wait around while someone cocks and loads one for a second shot. If a buck or a bull didn't know you were there after your first shot, the amount of movement it takes to cock and load would instantly give you away.

 

Granted, crossbow makers have made a lot of improvements to their products in the thirty years since I published that article, but compound bow makers haven't been sitting on their hands, either.

 

If crossbows were indeed so much better for hunting than compounds, then hunters using crossbows would vastly outnumber hunters with compound bows in the states that allow crossbow use during archery seasons, and they simply do not.

 

Bill Quimby

 

Incidentally, I have a crossbow from that era that I wouldn't mind selling if someone is interested in playing with one. I had planned to kill a javelina with it, but never got around to taking it hunting. With its scope, it ought to be worth $75.