Crossbows????

[deercrazy]

If one can get a medical marijuna card from a doctor, how easy should it be to get a disability card for using a cross bow?

 

Why should the state care what flings the pointed stick? todays bows are quiet and lethal from incredible distances, a crossbow is just another tool.

[kninebirddog]

there are a few states back east Ohio for example that allow crossbow during Bow season..I also do not see any reason a crossbow shouldn't be allowed during Bow season

 

as for Crossbows in Texas they actually just opened that back in 2009..I have said this before my first year bow hunting I started with a crossbow ..I quickly changed to a compound bow because the crossbow was clumsy to carry around and with out a special attachment I can not pull the string back and reload.

 

I also found it to be very limiting as to distance..My son the same thing his first year was with a crossbow and he also went to a compound the next year.. so I see the crossbow as a great way to getting people started who think it will be easier to shoot ..it is in the comfort zone and many if they like the different way of hunting graduate to regular bows...

 

Kudos to those that start to hunt some how some way..

[Scooter]

Why is everyone so afraid of crossbows during archery season??? They do it in Texas...

 

I think you answered your own question with "they do it in Texas"....no offense but they also fence off all their deer and have turned hunting into a pastime for the uberrich.

 

It's hard enough to get drawn for archery elk or kaibab deer without crossbows getting in the mix.

 

Now if it just about a disabled guy getting a fair shot then that is a different story...same with small game - I am all for it,

 

First off, Texas does not fence off ALL their deer... And if that is a gaff of High-Fence ranches, isn't there a few places right here in AZ that do that??? I personally don't like High Fence shooting (I refuse to call it hunting), but it is what it is and we live in a free country (for now).

 

Second... on the "hard enough to get drawn" comment- You are afraid if they legalize crossbows during archery-only seasons, it will cause an influx of new applicants to the draw... thus reducing your odds, right? I would challenge that by asking if you really need to own a bow to apply for a tag? What if there were just a huge amount of new applicants who shot compounds, and your chances for being drawn were reduced that way- would that make you feel better somehow? Truth is, there are NOT a whole bunch of crossbow hunters chomping at the bit, drooling and frothing at their zombie-like mouths waiting to get into the archery-only draw.

 

Where I came from in NY/PA people said the same things about inline muzzleloaders 15-20 years ago and look what happened... nothing. People argued that if you allow any muzzleloaders to have a scope on them, it would decimate the deer population and look what happened... nothing. Needless regulation lobbying by "special interest" hunting groups have really cost sportsmen their god-given freedom to choose what means they prefer to hunt with.

 

Lastly, any state that allows baiting for deer is really splitting hairs when it comes to "manner-of-take" rules... That's something that needs to get addressed before you start telling people how long their arrows need to be in my opinion.

[.270]

h e l l, there are guys on this site that think if you don't use the right rifle, you're unethical. only the 7mm/08 is unethical. one guy wrote on here that not using camo was unethical. some folks think recurves and compounds should be illegal and that everyone should just use a longbow. maybe we ought just use atlatl's or whatever them things were called. crossbows are probably a little less effective than a compound, in the hands of the right guys. but they do allow a guy with bad wing to shoot an arrow. they are a different way to hunt. only advantage i see of a crossbow over a compound is that once one was sighted in, you don't need to practice a lot like you should with a bow. it's all opinions. i don't see anything wrong with allowing folks to use crossbows. even more liberally than they are now allowed. Lark.

[ratherbehunting]

They had a webcast last night and AZGFD made it clear that they are NOT allowing crossbows during the archery elk hunts - only during the general hunts....so if you rifle hunters hear a bolt whistling by your ears next year, you will know what it is.

 

Again - my only complaint (and I think it was shared by many archery hunters) that allowing anyone and all use of crossbows during already very limited 5-10 year waits for decent archery hunts would reduce opportunity for all bowhunters.

 

I'll return y'all to your scheduled pro/against TX hunts now.

[billrquimby]

"Again - my only complaint (and I think it was shared by many archery hunters) that allowing anyone and all use of crossbows during already very limited 5-10 year waits for decent archery hunts would reduce opportunity for all bowhunters."

 

 

Please note that I have nothing against bowhunting and definitely would NOT share the opinion I am about to mention. However, just imagine the much larger number of hunters who might say the following:

 

"My only complaint (and I think it is shared by many rifle hunters) is that the long archery seasons and in-the-rut bowhunting are the reasons we have 5-10 year waits for decent rifle hunts and reduced opportunity for all rifle hunters."

 

Hunting is hunting, whether it is with bow, rifle, handgun, or crossbow. Accept it.

 

The percentage of hunters among our country's population is shrinking and within your lifetimes whether or not you will be allowed to hunt will be put to a vote of the public. If we are to preserve our tradition, we need to recruit and find room for more participants. It's as simple as that.

 

Bill Quimby

[Scooter]

So the main complaint is that allowing the use of crossbows during archery seasons will cause a sudden influx of applicants and thus reduce the odds of you drawing a tag. Okay, so on that same train of thought do you also consider every new archery hunter who applies for a tag (using a compound) as reducing your chances of drawing a tag? Kinda selfish if you ask me... Look, we have to encourage more folks to take up this sport/tradition- is that done by saying that we are already at capacity and there is no more room for anyone else to enjoy the same priveleges you have? Really, are you gonna know whether or not "your" tag was awarded to a seasoned crossbow hunter? or a 14 year old brand new hunter-ed graduate with a matthews Z7? or some 70 year old die-hard traditional longbow guy with 10 bonus points? It makes absolutely no difference who gets a tag... and when you are not drawn it will always be a disappointment.

 

Question: What constitutes a "decent" deer hunt as Mr. Quimby stated??? I'm just curious as I have not been here long, and need to figure out what people are talking about...

[ratherbehunting]

"Again - my only complaint (and I think it was shared by many archery hunters) that allowing anyone and all use of crossbows during already very limited 5-10 year waits for decent archery hunts would reduce opportunity for all bowhunters."

 

 

Please note that I have nothing against bowhunting and definitely would NOT share the opinion I am about to mention. However, just imagine the much larger number of hunters who might say the following:

 

"My only complaint (and I think it is shared by many rifle hunters) is that the long archery seasons and in-the-rut bowhunting are the reasons we have 5-10 year waits for decent rifle hunts and reduced opportunity for all rifle hunters."

 

Hunting is hunting, whether it is with bow, rifle, handgun, or crossbow. Accept it.

 

The percentage of hunters among our country's population is shrinking and within your lifetimes whether or not you will be allowed to hunt will be put to a vote of the public. If we are to preserve our tradition, we need to recruit and find room for more participants. It's as simple as that.

 

Bill Quimby

 

If that's the case...then just sign up for one of them there remote internet rifle robotic hunts. You can surf the message boards and kill a deer without leaving your couch.

[ratherbehunting]

So the main complaint is that allowing the use of crossbows during archery seasons will cause a sudden influx of applicants and thus reduce the odds of you drawing a tag. Okay, so on that same train of thought do you also consider every new archery hunter who applies for a tag (using a compound) as reducing your chances of drawing a tag? Kinda selfish if you ask me... Look, we have to encourage more folks to take up this sport/tradition- is that done by saying that we are already at capacity and there is no more room for anyone else to enjoy the same priveleges you have? Really, are you gonna know whether or not "your" tag was awarded to a seasoned crossbow hunter? or a 14 year old brand new hunter-ed graduate with a matthews Z7? or some 70 year old die-hard traditional longbow guy with 10 bonus points? It makes absolutely no difference who gets a tag... and when you are not drawn it will always be a disappointment.

 

Question: What constitutes a "decent" deer hunt as Mr. Quimby stated??? I'm just curious as I have not been here long, and need to figure out what people are talking about...

 

No - the complaint is specifically that allowing unlimited crossbows on scarce big game hunts like elk or kaibab, then you increase the harvest and eventually decrease hunter opportunity across the board - including for rifle and muzzle.

 

I have a z7 and 3 recurves and an older hoyt and am thinking about a longbow. I also have a couple of muzzleloaders and a few decent rifles. I am open to decent hunter opportunity across the board, but crossbows are evil and imho for healthy individuals they are just a lazy excuse not to learn to shoot well with a bow...plus i think they were invented by the french...enough said.

[mbiewer]

No offense... but i think the bigger issue that is coming to light was mentioned twice in the regulations as stated previosuly in the original post...

 

pneumatic weapons and hand-held projectiles: THIS MEANS I CAN FINALLY PLINK DOVES OFF MY BACK FENCE RIGHT? HA HA HA Time to dust off the "ol red rider"....

[Scooter]

Well, if the crossbow was invented by the French then that changes my position completely!!!

 

My only point was and still is: If an Archery tag is issued, who cares if the tag is filled with a crossbow or a longbow? Either way it's an animal taken by a string pushing an arrow going 150-400fps tipped with a broadhead! What difference does it make whether or not the launcher was vertical or horizontal? If there's only 50 tags, only 50 animals can be taken. Explain to me how 50 tags can somehow increase the harvest and decrease the opportunity. AZGFD issues tags for each area/hunt number on the pretense that they will all be filled, right?

 

We've dipped into it a little on this thread but let's reiterate that crossbows are NOT really any better than a modern compound bow. Like I said before, it's an arrow traveling anywhere between 150-400fps tipped with a broadhead.

 

Easier to shoot? You bet... But how many people bought compound bows when they came out because they were easier than recurves? This argument was had back then too- people said that compounds were unfair because every Tom, Richard, and Harry could hold them back for an hour if they wanted to... Sound familiar? What was their defense back then?

 

Don't we STILL have the "let-off %" rule in the record books??? Just because I used a bow that has 80% let off, does that completely negate the chase? Stuff like this just bugs me. Too many whiners regulating everything and not enough shutting up and hunting.

 

This is how it might look if all of the special interest hunters had their way: (so everyone has their own season untainted by other "evil" methods)

 

Traditional Pointed-Stick season: Atlatl, Spear, Longbow or Recurve only, no sights, wooden arrows/spears with natural feathers only, no screw-in broadheads, and all hunters must wear an outer layer of animal derived clothing (i.e. leather, deerskin, buffalo hide, bearskin, coonskin caps, etc.) or no clothing at all (loincloth is acceptable and highly encouraged)

 

Modern Pointed-Stick Season: Compound bow only, 65% maximum let off, may use bow sights (no artificially lighted pins, no electronic scopes or magnifying lenses may be used), only aluminum or carbon arrows, fixed-type broadheads with a minimum of 7/8" cutting diameter- no mechanical or barbed broadheads.

 

Pointed-Stick season: Crossbow, Compound, Longbow or Recurve, Atlatl, Spear, with any projectile combination, any sight configuration with only one stipulation: Weapon must be capable of projecting the pointed stick continuously through the air more than 150 yards.

 

 

See what I'm getting at? Every device that makes things easier has gotten the shifty eye from the previous generation- whether it's modern camo, treestands, ground blinds, trail cameras, optical sights, lenses on fiber optic sights, lighted pins, 80% let-off, mechanical broadheads, the list goes on and on and on... 20-50 years from now, they'll be debating hover-stands, thermal/laser sights and heat seeking-rocket assisted arrows!!! It's all about building a better mouse-trap. Crossbows are coming to an archery season near you, it's only a matter of time.

[coues krazy]

No - the complaint is specifically that allowing unlimited crossbows on scarce big game hunts like elk or kaibab, then you increase the harvest and eventually decrease hunter opportunity across the board - including for rifle and muzzle.

 

+1

 

Seems we are arguing over something thats not gonna happen anyway. At least not now. Personally I hope crossbows are never legal during archery only season.

[Scooter]

How do you increase the harvest simply by allowing crossbows? The harvest is controlled by the number of tags issued, not the method of take. For example: If you issue 100 archery tags for kaibab deer, and all 100 tag holders fill their tag with a regular bow- did the harvest increase? No. It's still 100 deer. They still will issue rifle tags and muzzleloader tags based on the animal population census. I agree that your chances of drawing a tag will decrease due to more applicants, but the opportunity to take an animal once you draw a tag is the same. You can't honestly say that crossbows are so unfairly deadly that it will decimate the population... That's just not true- and I challenge anyone to site ACTUAL FACTUAL data collected from any state's G&F department. That is the only way I'd buy into the outrage that crossbows create. I do NOT own a crossbow- I have no friends that own crossbows- I don't have the $$$ to buy a crossbow- and I hunt with a compound and a traditional longbow. I don't mind sharing the woods with crossbow hunters.

[kninebirddog]

Crossbows do not shoot out as far as a compound bow will the smaller bolt lacks the weight and length to maintain out like people think

 

If you miss your shot with a crossbow.You will be hard pressed to get reloaded with out mass movement and noise should the animal still be in range after the missed shot

 

Crossbows are cumbersome at best to lug around

 

My first season of bow hunting in Ohio I started with a crossbow..the following season I had a compound because I hated the crossbow for how hard it was to move around and there was no way for me to reload by myself with out a special crank to reset the string

 

and yes as stated there maybe a few more people who decide to try and bow hunt but I doubt seriously it would sky rocket..you may get some rifle muzzleloader hunter add some archery hunts to their last choices should a crossbow be allowed

 

So if it does get a few new people to the sport Great..we need more hunters as a whole sure less hunters means easier chance to get drawn but we need more support and get things turned around where we do not have to act like the skeleton in the closest because we hunt.

[Airbusdriver]

Crossbows do not shoot out as far as a compound bow will the smaller bolt lacks the weight and length to maintain out like people think

 

If you miss your shot with a crossbow.You will be hard pressed to get reloaded with out mass movement and noise should the animal still be in range after the missed shot

 

Crossbows are cumbersome at best to lug around

 

My first season of bow hunting in Ohio I started with a crossbow..the following season I had a compound because I hated the crossbow for how hard it was to move around and there was no way for me to reload by myself with out a special crank to reset the string

 

and yes as stated there maybe a few more people who decide to try and bow hunt but I doubt seriously it would sky rocket..you may get some rifle muzzleloader hunter add some archery hunts to their last choices should a crossbow be allowed

 

So if it does get a few new people to the sport Great..we need more hunters as a whole sure less hunters means easier chance to get drawn but we need more support and get things turned around where we do not have to act like the skeleton in the closest because we hunt.