Question about which rifle to buy???

[jordanhillis]

I have a Rem Model 700 .300 Win Mag now. It has just a little to much recoil to it for my liking and a really heavy trigger pull. I adjusted the trigger pull, but I still don't really like it. So, I am getting a new rifle. I want one that I will be able to shoot deer with mostly, but I will go on an occasional elk or African hunt. So, I would like to get one gun that will do it all. I would like one with similar ballistics to my current gun, but one that is lighter and has less recoil. I am looking at the Browning A-Bolt Stainless Stalker II in a 7mm WSM or 300 WSM. If any of you have one of these rifles, let me know what you think of it. Any suggestions or advice on which gun would be better? I'm not really up on what I actually need in the ballistics charts on these rifles. I also was going to add the BOSS system to my new rifle. I have heard some people that hate them b/c of the noise and some people that love them b/c of the recoil reduction. What do you all say about them? Finally, I would also really like to add a synthetic thumbhole stock to this rifle. Do they make any that fit this type of rifle? Please tell me where I can get a synthetic thumbhole stock for this gun b/c I can't find one anywhere on the internet. Any comments or advice would be appreciated? Thanks for all of the help.

[billrquimby]

I have a Rem Model 700 .300 Win Mag now. It has just a little to much recoil to it for my liking and a really heavy trigger pull.  I adjusted the trigger pull, but I still don't really like it.  So, I am getting a new rifle.  I want one that I will be able to shoot deer with mostly, but I will go on an occasional elk or African hunt. So, I would like to get one gun that will do it all. I would like one with similar ballistics to my current gun, but one that is lighter and has less recoil. I am looking at the Browning A-Bolt Stainless Stalker II in a 7mm WSM or 300 WSM. If any of you have one of these rifles, let me know what you think of it. Any suggestions or advice on which gun would be better? I'm not really up on what I actually need in the ballistics charts on these rifles. I also was going to add the BOSS system to my new rifle. I have heard some people that hate them b/c of the noise and some people that love them b/c of the recoil reduction. What do you all say about them? Finally, I would also really like to add a synthetic thumbhole stock to this rifle. Do they make any that fit this type of rifle?  Please tell me where I can get a synthetic thumbhole stock for this gun b/c I can't find one anywhere on the internet. Any comments or advice would be appreciated? Thanks for all of the help.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Perhaps these data below may help. Given your desire to have an all-purpose rifle with the least amount of recoil, I recommend that you buy a good ol? 7 mm Rem Mag. I know. It?s not as ?exotic? as the new short mags, but it does its job with a bit less recoil. I?ve taken everything from elk and moose to kudu, sable, waterbuck and wildebeest with mine. My second choice --- if you keep most of your shooting under 300 yards --- would be the .30-06. Like you absolutely hate recoil. To me, bullet placement is more important (within reason) than energy and velocity. I don?t shoot anything well that recoils more than 20 ft lbs.

 

I once had a Harry Lawson thumbhole curly maple stock on a .270 Win. Mauser, and shot a few head of Arizona game with it. I eventually restocked it. It seemed to me that the length of the trigger-to-buttplate was way too short for comfortable shooting.

 

BillQ

 

 

(caliber, bullet weight, velocity)...........rifle weight..................recoil ft lbs.

 

7mm Rem. Mag. (140 at 3150).................8.0..............................19.1

7mm WSM (160 at 3000...........................8.0..............................21.9

 

.30-06 Spfd. (180 at 2700)........................8.0..............................20.3

.300 WSM (180 at 2970)..........................8.25.............................23.8

.300 Win. Mag. (180 at 2960)...................8.5.............................. 25.9

[Red Rabbit]

The Browning Eclipse has a thumbhole stock, but is also close to 10 pounds.

One good option is to true the action and rebarrel your 700 to the chambering you want. Boyds and Bell & Carlson make thumbholes to fit your 700. The 700 trigger should adjust to your liking, or add an aftermarket. Put on a good recoil pad (and forget about the muzzle brake IMO)

The 7mm Rem mag would be a good choice. I have a couple of 300WSMs and they recoil like my 300 Win Mag

 

RR

[audsley]

[

 

My second choice --- if you keep most of your shooting under 300 yards --- would be the .30-06.

BillQ

 

This puzzles me. I know military marksmen use the 30.06 to bang away at 1,000 yard targets, or at least they used to, and I know a fellow who shoots 500-600 yards at coyotes fairly regularly using 190 grain bullets. This man works at a gun store and is fairly well known to shooters around Tucson. I don't think he's pulling my leg.

 

I thought calibers 6.5 and up, shooting bullets weighing 140 grains or more, and with ballistic coefficients in the very high 400s or better, were roughly equal in potential for long range accuracy. I understand that some people prefer heavier bullets and higher velocities for long range shooting, but I always believed that was intended to reduce wind effects. Some of the top Coues hunters use .300 Win Mag and .300 Weatherby Mag. But I recently read about one long distance competitive shooter who uses a 6mm because he believes light recoil promotes accuracy.

 

So why is the 30.06 just a 300-yard gun?

[Kevin]

I'd put a McMillan synthetic stock (Phoenix, AZ) and a Pachmeyer decelerator pad on the existing 300 and have a qualified gunsmith do the trigger. McMillan stocks are worth the money if getting rid of recoil is your goal, plus they can be custom made to fit you and your gun. Remington has one of the best adjustable triggers available today in a factory rifle (change the spring to a lighter one if you know what you are doing).

 

Also, I've shot 7 mm mags that will absolutely beat you to death! The above table might give some insight but from my experience it doesn't explain felt recoil worth a dern! Finding a stock that fits you is the best way to reduce recoil and McMillan can make one fit!

 

Kevin

[DesertBull]

I have both a 30/06 and a 7 mag and the 06 kicks every bit as much as the 7mag. I also have a .270 WSM that kicks a little less than either, but it is only shooting a 150 grain bullet, as opposed to the 06 (180) and the 7 mag (175).

 

Bullet weight makes a noticable difference in felt recoil. If you are shooting the 200 grain out of your .300, try dropping down to a 180 grain. Also, the limbsave recoil pads are great and consider a mercury recoil reducer that slips into the stock of the rifle, under the recoil pad. They work well, but add a little weight to your rifle.

 

If you get a muzzle brake, get one that you can remove. Use it at the range and when practicing then take it off forhunting, unless you don't mind hunting with earplugs.

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

If you don't like the recoil...... a muzzle brake and recoil pad will help a Ton! I use my 300 Wby mag. w/ 180 gr. Barns X bullets for everything. The bullets do very little meat damage and since I sent the rifle to Answer Products in Michigan, the recoil is less than a .243! I do hunt with my brake on.... earplugs are optional but recomended. You often have time to stuff the plugs in when you are Coues deer hunting. My Son shot his Coues this year at 610 yds with it.

[firstcoueswas80]

i second what doug says (RedRabbit) i say keep the gun and tune it how you like it, if that includes gettin it rebarrled that would be cheaper than getting a new gun. i have a 270wsm, 30-06 and 7mag. my 30-06 with 180 grainers kicks the hardest out of all of them but it is by far the lightest.

[billrquimby]

So why is the 30.06 just a 300-yard gun??

 

Audsley:

 

It?s not, but 300 yards approaches the limits of where I personally think it should be used on a regular basis.

 

A 180-grain bullet fired out of a .30-06 at 2,700 fps drops 5.7 inches at 300 yards, 33.9 inches (nearly 3 feet) at 500 yards, and 58.2 inches (nearly 5 feet) at 600 yards when sighted dead on at 200 yards (I feel a .30-06 used for hunting should be sighted dead on at 250 yards, but I could not find data for this distance). Zeroed for 200 yards, the bullet will drop 258 inches -- that?s 21.5 feet --- at 1,000 yards!

 

Data for the .30-06 sighted dead on at 300 yards are not much better.

 

Add the factors of wind drift and the difficulty of knowing exactly how high to hold above an animal, even with a rangefinder, and I cannot recommend using a .30-06 at long distances (which begin at 300 yards, in my opinion) under hunting conditions.

 

The .30-06 is a wonderful caliber with acceptable recoil that has weathered the test of time, but there are many calibers that are ballistically superior for long-distance shooting. There was a time when 1,000-yard matches were regularly won with it, but the hotter, flatter-shooting, newer calibers have replaced this 100-year-old workhorse.

 

If you want a .30 with light recoil for long-distance shooting, get a .300 Weatherby, stuff six or seven pounds of lead into its factory stock, and install one of the newer recoil pads. Get a muzzle brake if you don't care if you damage your and your buddy's hearing.

 

As some of you have noted, felt recoil of a given caliber drops as lighter bullets are fired at lower velocities from heavier rifles. Stock design also plays a role.

 

Bill Quimby

[audsley]

Thanks for the explanation, Bill. I wasn't considering bullet drop. However, I've been shooting 165 and 168 grain projectiles, Nosler BTs and Sierra hollowpoint boattails, from a 24-inch barrel (pre-64 Winchester Model 70), and I actually got much more drop than you described. I would sight in at 200 yards, then aim 10 inches high at 300. That worked just fine. If I had needed to go 350, I would have aimed 15 inches high.

 

I personally have a self-imposed limit of 350 yards, but that's based on my own marksmanship under field conditions and the groups I got at 300 yards which are typically around four inches. Maybe I need to practice more.

 

Recently I acquired a 7mm SAUM, the one that Remington put out and then quickly discontinued because everyone who wanted a short action 7mm had already bought Winchester's WSM because it reached the market sooner. This is the first barrel I've owned that was manufactured in this millenium, and everyone tells me today's barrels are a lot better than they were 20 years ago. So maybe this new rifle and I can tighten up the groups a bit.

 

And I'll do what you suggest with a .300 Weatherby - stuff six or seven pounds of lead in the stock, but only if you'll carry it for me.

[billrquimby]

I personally have a self-imposed limit of 350 yards, but that's based on my own marksmanship under field conditions and the groups I got at 300 yards which are typically around four inches.  Maybe I need to practice more. ...  .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Audsley:

 

Don't be so modest. Four-inch groups under field conditions at 300 yards ain't bad with a factory .30-06. I wish I could shoot so poorly while using a rock or a stump for a rest.

 

I admire your self-imposed limit. I cringe when I see people talk about shooting animals at extreme distances. I've killed a lot of game and it still bothers me to see an animal shot badly.

 

The difference between a clean kill at 500 and 600 yards and a crippled animal that runs off to die a week later from a cruel, festering wound is only a tiny fraction of a wiggle thinner than a hair. And we haven't even mentioned wind bursts and the normal drift a bullet might encounter during its more-than-a-quarter-mile flight.

 

BillQ

[Guest Ernesto C]

When I was testing factory loads (Remington,Whinchester and Federals) for my 30-06 I found that Remington gave me better groups than the other two but noticed that at long distances the Federal ammo will drop a lot less than the other two; so now I shoot Federal ammo with my rifle sighted in or dead on at 250 yards. I always try to keep my shots under 340-350 (300 meters) yards but also feel confident to make a 425 yard shot............behind that distance...........I'll be guessing or hoping to hit the target.

 

Ernesto C