does anybody know this person?

[donniedent]

And you will feel better about yourself than some rich guy trying to fill a void in his life by shooting some huge elk to give himself a false sense of accomplishment.

 

Are we really gonna start the class warfare buisness. This has nothing to do with how much money someone has. The only guy that we know for sure had a guide was Craig. It was never stated that the Bowtech guy had a guide, it was only stated that he had a group. Guides are not the issue guys, the issue is the true motivation of alot hunters these days. Guides provide a service. Ask any guide and he will tell you the hunter has the last call, if he wants to pull the trigger on a rag horn its the hunters choice. Its also the hunters choice to hold out for a 400" bull. If Bowtech was being guided, he could have stopped the whole thing with one word as soon as he saw that Craig shot and wounded the bull.

 

Money, guides blah blah blah... it has zero to do with it. If hunters weren't willing to pay trophy fees it would be a non-issue! Guides provide a service plain and simple. Its their job to give you what you want.

 

I guess when you have more money your ethics somehow disolve???

 

Retarded!

[donniedent]

I'm sorry the money part of my post was refering to what you were saying not the guide part, sorry if I mixed the two.

 

You are wrong, no where does it say "money is the root of all evil". It says "the LOVE of money is the root of all evil". Would you ever call a baseball bat evil? Probably not!

 

And money has NOTHING to do with what happened. I make a very good living and I work hard to do so but I hunt strictly DIY. So you're saying because I have money my ethics are now somehow corrupt? The last deer I shot was a spike! I was out for meat and meat only on that hunt. But... according to your logic because I make a good living I throw my ethics out the window? That is retarded thinking... did you vote for Obama because he thinks the same way. And... uses class warfare to do so.

 

It does strike a nerve with me because anytime theres a discussion like this, someone always pipes in about the rich guys and guides. No you didn't mention guides but it usually goes hand in hand.

 

Work on your thinking a little bit and look at the true issue.... the second part of your first post where you hit the nail on the head... and guys without alot money are the same dang way!

[June]

Well, I guess it really doesn't matter where the truth lies between "the parties" involved.

The real sad thing is that there is an animal out there that wasn't recovered(pending). Should be a lot of black birds by now.

[richardoutwest]

Nice fill time Lark, guess we all need too pitch in a tale or two while we wait for the other side of the story, heck brother , that could be another week or so. I’m with Vowell, come on page 6! The other forum died.

Me and old Pa was up in 1 few years back and the G&F jumped at given Pa a ticket fur shoot across a road n woundin a bull. Were forced ta road hunt cus of all them Outfitter posses were everywhere! The Game guy told Pa that he was watchin with one of them spottin scopes from his winder. Pa told the game guy he didn’t believe him and asked “how was I shootin, right or left handed’? The Game guy told Pa you were shootin right handed. Pa said, see yur lyin, Pa reached up and grabbed his glass eye out of his right eye socket, washed it off in his mouth and said see, yur lyin. The Game guy said your still gettin a ticket, that’s probably why you wounded that bull shootin out of a glass eye. So me and old Pa had ta get ta town to the Justis of the Peace. Pa stated his claim and took out him glass eye again and washed it around in his mouth and popped it in his cheek and asked hermajestic if she really thunk he could shoot right handed. Hermajestic dismissed all charges and told Pa to get his eye out of his mouth, she was disgusted with the whole story. Pa beat the rap, but if it weren’t for that low life Game guy holdin us up, we could have recovered the bull Pa shot. Funny thing is, Pa always shot right handed with his left eye with his semi auto 30-06, heck brothers, that’s how he lost his eye in the first place.

Moral of the story; things are not always as they appear and the Game warden knew it.

[donniedent]

That was great... thanks Richard!

[AZ KRAZY]

tjwking sure seems to stand behind everything he has posted and he was the guy doing the shooting. It seems like some want to spin it and take the pressure off the outfitter/posse/group/ or what ever you want to call them. It seems tjwking was done wrong and that group of guys on the mountain that day didn't give a darn about him or that he was in the middle of trying to kill a 400 in. bull he'd just wounded just like some on here don't seem to care about the hunter either. If everything is found out to be true the names of the group that caused this should be put out so people can beware. I wasn't there and don't know the hunter but I sure feel for him, you don't get many chances to pull your bow back on a 400 in. bull.

[donniedent]

Its a terribly sad situation. I've been paying close attention to this deal since it started. Craig seems to be an honest stand up guy and really sucks that he had his dream hunt blown by someone who cared only about themselves. They both could've been following that bull for months. They both could have spent countless hours scouting that bull. But the simple fact is Craig got to the bull first, the other party should have at least left the bull alone and let Craig attempt to finsh his hunt. Instead, they got greedy and competative and stopped seeing the bull for what it was, a bull elk someone else shot. You see, money isn't the issue, guides aren't the issue... they are just tools. They are used, by some, to get whatever they want. I don't blame guides for this, if there wasn't a demand... they wouldn't be there, plain and simple. The demand is the issue! The almighty trophy... fame, mag articals, maybe some free gear, your picture on a broadhead package. It all boils down to recognition. These guys want to be somehow recognized as great acheivers in the world of hunting. Now hunting is no longer a sport but a means to an end.... recognition.

[couesnaz]

Ok, you guys continue bashing a group of hunters who haven't posted their side of the story. Enough is enough. When the group is done HUNTING, wait let me do that again HUNTING, they will post their side of the story.

[donniedent]

This is a discussion forum correct???

[archeryhuntingnut]

Couesnaz, I simply do not see how the group can spin itself out of the mess it apears to have created. Seems to me that Craig has recordings of conversations where the group admitted it knew he had shot the bull, put themselves between Craig and his bull after knowing Craig was tracking his wounded bull, jumped the wounded bull from its death bed, after Craig went to their camp to discuss the situation they immediately started layin into him cursing without provocation, and then, after promising to give Craig 2 days to look for it, started tracking it about 2 hours later, once the Game and Fish left. I suppose they could come on and say Craig is a complete liar, but looks like there are some undisputed facts that put the group in a bad place no matter how they may want to spin it.

 

We will wait and see I suppose, but if half of what Craig says is true, then the group screwed up big time in my book. Maybe they don't see it that way. Maybe they take the position, unless and unitl the bull has taken its last breath, it is fair game for any other hunter to pursue, even if they saw Craig shoot it and knew he was tracking it. If so, that is their opinion. I am one who simply thinks that kind of hunting is unethical and reprehensible, even it is not technically against the law.

 

So there you have it. That is my opinion. You may disagree and you have the right to do so. It would be my hope the vast majority of our hunting community would share my views. I suppose that is one thing we may find out, through discussions on sites such as this.

 

One other thing, someone mentioned above that this incident is not about guides or outfitters because ultimately it is the hunter that makes the choice as to what he is willing to do. I do not agree entirely with that statement. The guide or outfitter does have some impact in my book. Lets say the situation is as Craig reports, meaning that the group saw that Craig had shot the bull and was atempting to track it. Say DBLUNG tells his guide he wants to go after it even though they are aware of Craig's efforts. In my opinion an ethical guide would explain to DBLUNG that such action would not be ethical and that there are more bulls in the forest to go after. If the hunter insisted, I believe an ethical guide should say he has no interest in being part of such unethical conduct. Now some will say the client is always right and that he has paid the guide to do as he asks, but to that I say bs! It should not be about the almighty dollar. A guide or outfitter should not check his ethical standards out the door simply because his client has none. At least that is my opinion. Again, others may disagree and a site such as this lets us get a sense of the type of people our hunting community is made up of.

[elkaholic]

Ok, you guys continue bashing a group of hunters who haven't posted their side of the story. Enough is enough. When the group is done HUNTING, wait let me do that again HUNTING, they will post their side of the story.

 

(edit)

 

You come on here -no introducion as to who you are - with "6" posts - all - obviously defending a "group" of hunters who been accused of "misdealings"..

 

And tell us to stop - enough- quit the postings of discussions and opinions - baggering -

 

we have a known member posting his personnel experinces - why would the g$f be involved if there was not some truth to accusation/seriuosness of situation - the recording is a bonus.

 

i think it was just the verbal agreement to let them hunt 2 days "unmolested" these are FACTS and not hearsay - my word against yours- from 2 parties - when the g$f is standing witness!

 

if pictures where taken of a bloody arrow - a hit high on the shoulder/lung area which produced a blood trail -

 

Obviuosly anyone looking thru binoculars would be able to "ID" the bull as already having been shot!

 

 

 

for the record - if this "GROUP" did 1/2 of what has been stated -it doesn't look good , from a hunters view .

 

 

 

 

we need new people on the forum and members of our site - but who are you to tell us anything as to how and what we can discuss or when to quit!

[donniedent]

Ok, you guys continue bashing a group of hunters who haven't posted their side of the story. Enough is enough. When the group is done HUNTING, wait let me do that again HUNTING, they will post their side of the story.

 

 

 

You come on here with "6" posts - no introducion as to who you are - obviously defending a "group" of hunters who been accused of "misdealings"..

 

And tell us to stop - enough- quit the postings of discussions and opinions - baddering -

 

we have a known member posting his personnel experinces - why would the g$f be involved if there was not some truth to accusation/seriuosness of situation - the recording is a bonus.

 

i think it was just the verbal agreement to let them hunt 2 days "unmolested" these are FACTS and not hearsay - my word against yours- from 2 parties - when the g$f is standing witness!

 

if pictures where taken of a bloody arrow - a hit high on the shoulder/lung area which produced a blood trail -

 

Obviuosly anyone looking thru binoculars would be able to "ID" the bull as already having been shot!

 

 

 

for the record - if this "GROUP" did 1/2 of what has been stated -it doesn't look good , from a hunters view .

 

 

 

 

we need new people on the forum and members of our site - but who are you to tell us anything as to how and what we can discuss or when to quit!

 

 

Very well put.

[couesnaz]

Oh is that how the site works? I have to have 1000 posts before my words mean anything? Again, elk season is still going on, and there is still at least one of the two groups still hunting. I can't wait till the BOWTEC guys..LOL post their story. I've said it before, and I will say it again. There will be a lot of crow eaten that day.

[donniedent]

Oh is that how the site works? I have to have 1000 posts before my words mean anything? Again, elk season is still going on, and there is still at least one of the two groups still hunting. I can't wait till the BOWTEC guys..LOL post their story. I've said it before, and I will say it again. There will be a lot of crow eaten that day.

 

I gotta say I really hope so. It would be nice to hear that they didn't do all they were accused of. That would be awsome. I've eaten crow many many times. I'm wrong alot and if I am, I'll be the first to say so.

 

It still wouldn't change my opinion on how this whole thing went. Its still a common occurance for hunters to fight over animals. Its still common to hear about guys being bullied around on public land. If this whole saga accomplishes anything, I hope it shows people that the trophy isn't the goal of the hunt... the hunt is the goal of the hunt. I have nothing against hunters wanting to do the best they possibly can. What I do have a problem with is when it is at the cost of fellow hunters. Craig spelled the story out very clearly and with great detail, I really don't see how the main points of the story could be much different that what he told but hey, stranger things have happened.

 

***EDIT***

 

Let me add something else. I only have 270 or so posts but I have been coming here for 7 years. Nobody has a problem with the fact that you have 6 posts. I think the issue some have is that it seems that you've only joined the site to deffend the actions of others. This is a discussion forum and this is a very important topic that absolutely needs to be discussed. It is unfortunate that we have not heard from the second party at this point. There have been some, inculding me, that have used strong words. But I think what you're hearing is an overall discust with the direction hunting seems to be going. We all have stories of things like this and I think as a community and a culture... we're done! This kind of crap has to stop!

[archeryhuntingnut]

Just got a call from a friend of mine who is still hunting. Reported that he helped someone track a bull yesterday morning. Evidently the hunter made a bad shot, in the hind quarter. My friend saw the hunter shortly after the shot, while the hunter was sitting down planning to wait for 30-45 minutes to commence his tracking. My friend offered to help. Well good news, the hunter was really lucky, apparently hit the bull's main artery in the back end and it bled out in about 400 yards. Funny how things work out, even with poor shooting, when fellow hunters help each other.