does anybody know this person?

[archeryhuntingnut]

Dave

 

My point was that Stan had represented that he had spoke to both parties and that they had essentially asked him to request that this entire thread be removed or deleted. However now Craig has confirmed that he had no such conversaion with Stan and made no such statement or request. Really does not matter what the other party has to say about that, it appears clear Stan, for some unexplained reason, was misrepresenting the facts.

[redline410]

Unless I missed my mark, I'm guessing the "Parties" with which the man spoke were the wizards behind the curtain and not the gentlemen who started the thread. tjwking was asked not to speak any longer on the matter and although it may have been his friend/guide that made the request to him, if said friend/guide is representing anyone, you can bet that where the order came from.

 

Making seditious public statements based on opinions derived from limited information is a bad way to go through life.

 

 

Now, would someone please post a topic showing an actual successful elk hunt?!?!?

 

Dave

[archeryhuntingnut]

Very interesting "the parties" would not include the man who lost the opportunity to retrieve the bull elk he shot. The man who started this post would not be one of "the parties". So everyone is critized for not wanting to push something like this under the rug, are accused of speculating and saying things without first hand knowledge, and now it is acceptable to speculate about how and why Stan misrepresented the facts, by using a rather interesting interpretation of the phrase "the parties". Yeah reminds of the time our country was wondering about the defense someone use when they asserted that all words were inherently ambigious, in the famous phrase:"what is is?"

[grandmawhitetailhunter52]

I haven't read one word in this thread nor will I. I have however talked with people from both parties involved today. They have both requested that this thread be deleted. I don't know either of hunters personally and I wasn't there. But both sides said the hearsay and accusations are way out of line. It's Amanda's site and she can do as she pleases and I respect that. I'm just honoring a request from both parties to remove this from the www were it doesn't belong.

 

Stan

 

 

Stan, you posted this same thing on the other site so I'm going to reply on both sites. Here is a copy of what I replied on the other site.

 

 

 

 

"Nuke a thread where no names have been mentioned? The closest thing to personal info was a licence plate.

 

All you really have here is hunters sharing thier opinions on a messed up situation. And AZ402, if you haven't read any of the posts, how do you know what has been said or if there have been accusations?

 

Because there were probably no laws truly broken, this is a chance for us as hunters to police our own. If we don't stand up and say what we, as an American culture, think is appropriate and not appropriate who will? There are laws that govern how we are expected to act in the field according to the law but there are no laws that say how we should act as a culture. We set our own standard. We police our own. The majority says what is acceptable and not acceptable. They teach ethics in Hunters Education but past that we are left to our own devices. If sportsman don't have a venue, like this, to share our concerns about the direction our sport is going then what will happen? What will happen if there are not voices to hold back the tide of those seeking to take advantage of our wildlife for profit? I do NOT think guides are the problem here guys. They fill a need. If I look to my left on this page right here I see a long list of reputable guides that have proven over many years that they love what they do and do it ethically. Lets not make this about guides. The problem is our own need to fill some hole in ourselves that says "If I shoot a record bull I'm more of a man". Should we NOT strive to do our best... NO! Should we strive to do our best for our OWN gratification? Absolutley! Should we strive and work for that giant bull so that others can tell us how good we are? NO!!! We should, as a culture, teach others that this a life of self-fullfilment. We deem what is a trophy in our own eyes an strive for that goal. We need to stop basing our personal value on what other think of us, and start basing it on what we think of ourselves and teach our kids that same value!

 

The only rule that was deffinately broken in this situation was the Golden Rule.

 

Heres the deal brothers, if we aren't careful we will start to see game and fish start a lottery for guides on hunts as well, to limit how many guides can work on a certain unit... You don't think it can happen? Let this crap keep happening and see what they do! Let the wrong person get messed with on a hunt, say a commissoner, and see if things don't change! Let a senator or congressman have a hunt ruined by this crap and see what happens. Remember what Harry Reid did to boil George Taulmans dreams of no non-resident cap?

 

Mark my words, if we do not police our own, the government will do it for us!"

WELL SAID!!!!!!!!

[amac]

Glad I always have me video cam on me while im out in the woods. lol

hope this never happens to me, but if it does it will be getting recorded!!!

[Condor]

Im so pissed I wasted time reading this

[Younghunter]

"One person's perception is their reality regardless of the events.

Dave

 

 

Very well said!

[Tines]

Good luck with getting things sorted out. I, on the other hand, wore out my thesaurus trying to understand half of what was being said in the last few posts.....

 

Bottom line, some hunters have twisted ideals on what is acceptable and what isn't. Someone posted earlier that as long as you spend time in units where older aged-class animals are being hunted (especially during the rut), you're going to run into this. Sad....

[db cooper]

In order to avoid unsavory situations such as this, I specifically target small, undersized, antler challenged representatives of the species I am hunting. It saves me so much trouble.

[archeryhuntingnut]

dbcooper you might be on to something. Unfortunately, over time people will start to understand the wisdom of your actions, and it will only be a matter of time before a new group of obsessed trophy hunters engage in overly agressive and unethical actions to harvest the smallest legal game.

[DUG]

db cooper, that is great. I feel the same way. That's why I don't hunt for the biggest antlers. It doesn't matter to me. I'm real good at killin' smaller stuff too......

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

Hot Heads and Haters.... Perception is like looking through your binos.... it is often one dimensional until you hold really still and look at the whole picture... This sounds like a very unfortunate situation... I'd bet money that the only real foul here is the character assassination that the www. provides.

 

Everyone loves to read the drama but no one gains from it but those who hate us hunters....

[Couzer]

Come on page 6!

[.270]

this kinda stuff happens every year on just about every hunt. especially elk. rich guys with huge posses move into an area, their toadys try hard to ingratiate themselves with the famous guy and somebody ends up doing something stupid. maybe not illegal, but stupid. they don't always make the news like this one has, but they still happen. look at the fiasco of the big bull in utah they named spider. a guy i know was there just trying to see it and somebody knifed his tires. no season was going on or anything but a buncha guys were keeping tabs on it. i was driving down the road by pool knoll in u1 and a guy drove out in front of me and made me stop and said that uso had a big camp of hunters there and nobody was supposed to be in there. on a dang usfs maintained road. i was cuttin' wood for h e l l s sake. with no private land anywhere. when i got done with him he had a different attitude. ended up it was that sorry sob griz montoya that filed the lawsuit for taulman. if you yell real loud at him he sorta cowers like a punk. if you are a hunter, i mean a guy that knows what he is doing and is really interested in the hunt and don't care about the magazine articles or tv shows that ya might be in, you don't need a whole dang batallion to run around with you. i don't know anymore than i read here, but from past experience i can sorta get a feel for what happened. i think anyway. craig coulda helped himself with a little better marksmanship probably. but if these guys woulda left him alone he probably coulda made a quick recovery of the bull. if that's the way it went down. sounds like he's quite adamant. i've come up on guys several times that were tracking an animal and if they wanted me to i would always take time from my hunt to help. and i've had guys do the same for me. used to be that most hunters got along pretty well. doesn't seem like it is as tight a bunch as it used to be. and i ain't never read any rule or law about givin' a buy 2 days. do they have that authority? that one is really funny. anyway, good luck craig. hunt hard and keep after it. hope it all works out. wish i was out there with a tag. Lark.

[WadeNAZ]

... i don't know anymore than i read here, but from past experience i can sorta get a feel for what happened. i think anyway. craig coulda helped himself with a little better marksmanship probably. but if these guys woulda left him alone he probably coulda made a quick recovery of the bull. if that's the way it went down. sounds like he's quite adamant. i've come up on guys several times that were tracking an animal and if they wanted me to i would always take time from my hunt to help. and i've had guys do the same for me. used to be that most hunters got along pretty well. doesn't seem like it is as tight a bunch as it used to be...

 

Yep, Well stated Lark. Just out of courtesy/respect I'm holding out for the rest of the story before I share my opinion. is this one a thread of the year candidate yet?