25-06 Report post Posted January 22, 2006 "Well said Tom, By the way I like your new site" Link? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> www.adrenalineguideservice.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dave Report post Posted January 22, 2006 Not to pick on the breeze here but I really think most houndsmen are far too good to chase bears with dogs. I wish they could all concentrate on killing lions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Reynaldo de la Torre Report post Posted January 24, 2006 "All the hunter has to do is follow and I know that is hard - riding the horses and such - but there is no skill involved. " Reynaldo I refuse to agree to disagree. That statement is the absolute most asinine thing I have read on the internet in quite a while. "No skill involved" why them is fightin' words. I have 15 big game western big game animals with a bow and the hardest thing I have ever done is hound hunt by far.? If you think it is just a matter of following a pack of dogs around until they tree you are sorely mistaken. As far as the ethics are concerned try training a pack of dogs and then come and tell me how unfair it is. Try tring a mule to do what you want without dying in the process and come and tell me how easy that was. Try riding a mule along some rim rock cliffs without urinating in your chonies and then come talk to me about how it takes no skill. I average a lion or a bear around every 8 times out. Even the best houndsmen in az probably at best average 1 for every 3 or 4 days out. Once the dogs are on the ground you are basically at their mercy as far as where you will end up on the end of a track. If you enjoy riding a mule or hiking from sun up to sun down this is the sport for you. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The last thing I intended to do is pick a fight. However I am easy to find... Well said Tom, By the way I like your new site <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billrquimby Report post Posted January 24, 2006 Let me say up at the top that I feel hunting lions and bears with hounds is the purest form of hunting. It can be more physically demanding, sporting and exciting than any other way of hunting these animals. I loved chasing hounds when I still was capable of doing so. Also, I see nothing wrong with sitting on a waterhole, waiting for game to show up. I've just never had the patience to do it. If you do, that's fine with me. Now that I've said this, I'm tossing into this thread the fact that both practices are considered repugnant, morally irresponsible and highly unethical by the majority of "sportsmen" who live in Africa. A controversy has been raging in southern Africa for the past six or seven years after a few guys started hunting leopards with hounds in Botswana, Namibia, South Africa and Zimbabwe. The houndsmen and those who have hunted with them say it not only is exciting but it also can be dangerous. There's at least one video out there showing a bayed leopard attacking the hunter. Their critics don't care. They want hunting with hounds to be outlawed. A few even have been saying that hunting birds with dogs also is unethical. There is no controversy about shooting near water. Virtually everyone down there agrees it must never be done under any circumstances. But there are differences of opinion as to how far a hunter should be from that water before shooting an animal. I've seen things printed that say it is unsportsmanlike to hunt within a HALF MILE of water being used by wildlife! Sure, many professional hunters ignore this and their clients (especially bowhunters) are allowed to shoot at waterholes. They also allow their clients to shoot from vehicles. All of the various professional hunting associations, though, have adopted codes of ethics that include statements against shooting near water or vehicles. Bill Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dave Report post Posted January 27, 2006 Being a wantabe bowhunter, I had a houndsman explain to me that still hunting for elk in their beds during the middle of the day was a bad thing to do. It would push the elk out of that area. I believe he is correct. Whats a hunter to do? You shouldn't use dogs, you shouldn't sit water, you shouldn't hunt them in their beds. Shoot, now I know why we have road hunters. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Reynaldo de la Torre Report post Posted January 27, 2006 Being a wantabe bowhunter, I had a houndsman explain to me that still hunting for elk in their beds during the middle of the day was a bad thing to do. It would push the elk out of that area. I believe he is correct. Whats a hunter to do? You shouldn't use dogs, you shouldn't sit water, you shouldn't hunt them in their beds. Shoot, now I know why we have road hunters. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I never thought it was wrong to do - it is wrong for me and not how I was taught. Things got a little crazy - probably my fault because of the way I said it. However if you just stay legal you are ok. Road hunting though - I better keep it to myself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Noel Arnold Report post Posted January 27, 2006 I would never road hunt now.But when I am 70 years old and can not walk. Heck yes. Noel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Becker Report post Posted January 29, 2006 In my opinion, I think hunting animals in their natural behavior is what should be done. Animals naturally come to water. Whether you are at the water, 20 yards off on a trail to the water, you are still doing the same thing. Ambushing the deer that are coming naturally to the water. Now when they are coming to the sound of a feeder or something thats when I loose interest, however in some places that might be the only way to see deer because of the terrain. Its not what I want to do but I don't condone it. As far as chasing things with dogs, one of the hardest things I have done. I have chased dogs with littlebear farther than I would ever imagine. The training, etc. involved with the dogs is something that I think most people don't understand unless they are out there two or more times a week trying to train dogs. Even my bird dog is hard work. Hunting is hunting and thats why I beleive there are certain laws in place to regulate it. Looking at the "bigger picture of all hunters working together" whether or not agree with my way over yours is what we should aim for. Keep in mind hunting might not always be here to enjoy. Especially if we can't all agree.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dave Report post Posted January 29, 2006 becker, I have to agree with that. I just worry about anyone too close to littlebear or tom. Those boys scare me Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billrquimby Report post Posted January 29, 2006 "I would never road hunt now.But when I am 70 years old and can not walk. Heck yes. Noel" Probably not if you're like me, Noel. I qualify on both counts you've listed -- I'm 70 and I have a health problem that keeps me from getting very far from my truck, especially if it is uphill at all. Unfortunately, the laws against road hunting take neither into account. and I don't qualify for CHAMP status yet. BillQ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coues 'n' Sheep Report post Posted January 30, 2006 Great Buck Desert Bull!!! Hey De La- You have obviously never been hunting with hounds. There is way more skill involved than you think, and "all you have to do is follow?," well come on anytime buddy. You are welcome to try and "follow" my dogs, and we'll see how fast your oppinions change about shooting an animal out of a tree. And sitting, be it water or a trail or salt, is considered fair chase by all the hunting record books for a reason, CAUSE ITS NOT EASY. Some of my easiest kills have been stalking, or just wandering around and happening onto an animal. But you bust your butt scouting and learning the animals habits, then set up an ambush accordingly, there is a bit more skill involved than you see.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> AMEN---- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest couesgetter Report post Posted January 30, 2006 Anybody who thinks sitting water is unethical doesn't have to sit water. That's your opinion. Anti-Hunters don't like hunting, That doesn't mean I have to quit hunting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sonoran Game Outfitters Report post Posted January 30, 2006 Being a guide I would say that hunting water is a safe, legal and ethical thing any hunter can do if he/she chooses to. The AZ G&F even has in its regulations that it is an effetive form of hunting but to be sure that just becuase you are the first one there that you do not own the spot. The thing to remember is that to each is own. What works for you may not work for others. If its safe, legal and ethical then why not. As for hounds..I'm all for it. Having never done it I cannot think of anything harder to do than to keep up with dogs. Even horses do not have the ability to climb like some of those dogs do. You must be in great physical shape to hang in there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
the breeze Report post Posted January 30, 2006 there is no better way to help a youth harvest an animal than hunting from a blind near water and with hounds in a tree. once they get there first they are hooked for life. I am way to much of a spaz to hunt water myself:) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Noel Arnold Report post Posted January 30, 2006 Bill, I feel for you, I am 42 years old and have had four knee operations on one knee (Sports Injury)I am still able to go pretty good. But I do not know how much longer due to lack of cartiledge.Last year after I shot my whitetail, the next day I saw three muledeer bucks laying down across the canyon from the road. Up drives a guy with his dad.The dad was in his mid-seventies and he had a champ tag (broken back). The dad could no longer walk,but he sure could shoot. Nailed the buck at 400 yards. The dad stayed at the truck while the son and I got the deer out.I got as much pleasure out of that as shooting my buck. What keeps you from getting a champ tag? Noel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
