fire map of wallow fire

[.270]

my cousin sent me the most current map of the wallow fire. showed all the places that are still burning and all the places that did burn. one thing really jumped out at me, the fire basically just stopped at the rez line on both the san carlos and fort apache. it burned over on them a mile or so in a couple places, but it just stopped right at the line for almost the whole distance of the fire. do the apaches have asbestos trees or something or does the fact that they still actively log and run cattle, 2 things that thin the undergrowth just by allowing them, have something to do with it? i guess the main denominator, or lack of tho is they don't have the forest circus or the usfw and all the treehuggers to deal with. anyway, it was interesting to me. Lark.

[Coach]

my cousin sent me the most current map of the wallow fire. showed all the places that are still burning and all the places that did burn. one thing really jumped out at me, the fire basically just stopped at the rez line on both the san carlos and fort apache. it burned over on them a mile or so in a couple places, but it just stopped right at the line for almost the whole distance of the fire. do the apaches have asbestos trees or something or does the fact that they still actively log and run cattle, 2 things that thin the undergrowth just by allowing them, have something to do with it? i guess the main denominator, or lack of tho is they don't have the forest circus or the usfw and all the treehuggers to deal with. anyway, it was interesting to me. Lark.

 

 

What I heard was that they immediately mobilized every piece of equipment they had and started bulldozing like crazy. Mt. Baldy is a very sacred place to them, and they jumped right on things.

 

Also, since the wind has been pushing the fire to the NE they had a lot less spot fires to contend with. Most of the 40% containment number we're hearing has to do with fire fighters' success at preventing any Westward movement of the fire toward Green's Peak, etc. I imagine the tribes have both been able to prevent Westward movement in much the same way.

[.270]

that well may be, but i don't think the tribes have that kind of resource to put on it. dang sure nothing like the feds put across the fence. and as far as the way the wind blows, the wallow fire has been burning south steadily, into the wind, since it started. it's within a couple miles of honeymoon campground now. when there is fuel, a forest fire tends to go every which way. faster with the wind for sure, but it will go into it too. whether it's intentional or not, i think the tribes have done a much better job managing their side of the fence. baldy may be sacred, but there are logging roads above timberline on it. they've logged the heck out of it for as long as they've been logging. for the past 20 years at least, the usfs management policy has been no management. just sort of a lets hide and see what happens sort of a deal. whatever the case, this is one sad story that is just getting started. only the first couple chapters of a really long boring novel. Lark.

[AZLance]

Most of the Wildliand fire hand crews are indian crews from the reservation, they also have a few Hot Shot crews. They get contracts with the Forest Service to work on most large fires. So yes, they have a huge fire fighting contingent. This is how many of their locals are employed. They also have a big reputation of starting "job" fires, for job security. That is how half of the Rodeo-Chediski fire started.

[CouesWhitetail]

I have been receiving regular updates from the San Carlos Forestry Dept and they had a ton of people fighting that fire on the reservation. The tribes have a well developed fire program and many excellent fire fighting crews that are used nation-wide.

 

About 10,000 acres burned on San Carlos up in the northeast section of the reservation (malay gap/black river) and over 12,000 acres on the White Mtn Apache Reservation. They have some very thick forest in the areas that burned as well as some that has been thinned. While I agree the San Carlos does an excellent job managing their forests, I think the main spread of the fires has a lot more to do with the way the winds normally blow West to East. That pushed the fire toward Alpine and NM rather than into the reservations and gave the firefighters a bit of a helping hand.

 

From having worked on the San Carlos reservation I know they do the usual NEPA process for their forestry projects, pretty much just like off the reservation. All their forestry projects receive review and input from biologists, the public, range management personnel, soil scientists, water specialists, tribal EPA personnel and federal reviews if necessary by USFWS and BIA. The Tribe manages their forest while still maintaining habitat for endangered species such as the Mexican Spotted Owl. They follow environmental laws and still do a lot of pre-commercial thinning followed by prescribed burns. It's that thinning and burning that is crucial to allowing the forests to go back to a more natural fire pattern. However, much of the reservation is too steep, they don't do thinning/logging on slopes >40% and actually the loggers generally can't cut effectively on slopes >30%. One thing that has helped recently is that they have retooled the mill to accept smaller trees because there is now a market for them...there has been a real problem nationwide with finding a market for small trees, which makes it really hard to have any type of economical thinning project.

[.270]

the usfs shoulda hired them then, because it flat stopped at the rez fence for many miles. i don't think the tribes have a tenth of the men or equipment that the usfs had at their disposal. they have some top fire fighters, no doubt. but i don't think any amount or quality of firefighters coulda stopped that fire if there was fuel to support it. in my opinion, the fuel just ain't there on the rez. nothing like the grown up stuff east of the fence at least. i don't see anyway the fire just stops at the fence because of manpower or equipment. if that was the case they could stopped it any time after it got out of the canyons. Lark.

[cdenton]

Amanda nailed it spot on with what happens on the rez and whether people want to believe it or not the same stuff happens on the other side of the fence. A couple of the main objectives of the fire were to keep the fire off of the reservation and definitely keep it off of mt baldy. If it would have gotten to baldy it would have been a giant mess. The tribe did a great job with their firefighting resources as usual and a ton of resources from the forest service, state, contractors and about every agency out there that were assigned to the wallow fire were also helping in the area on the reservation. They all did a great job but the southwest winds pushing the fire to the northeast is one of the main reasons that the fire did not burn alot of acres on the reservation.

[thewileyone]

Most of the Wildliand fire hand crews are indian crews from the reservation, they also have a few Hot Shot crews. They get contracts with the Forest Service to work on most large fires. So yes, they have a huge fire fighting contingent. This is how many of their locals are employed. They also have a big reputation of starting "job" fires, for job security. That is how half of the Rodeo-Chediski fire started.

 

 

So true, all indian reservations have hotshot crews and there are several fires a year that these indian hotshot crews get blamed for starting. They make a TON of money from the US government to fight fires so they are going to make sure that business is good... they will also work a lot harder and faster to get fires put out that involve their reservation... they don't get paid as good to fight their own fires.