coues7 Report post Posted June 3, 2011 If I get banned for this post......SO BE IT! I wanted to take the time to thank the US Forest Circus for the bang up job they have and are doing on managing our forests. I would like to give a special thanks to those who manage the Apache-Sitgreaves Forest. I feel especially blessed that the US Forest Circus learned so much from the Rodeo-Chedeski fire (June 18-July 7, 2002). It's good to see that the tree huggers got their way and we ran all the loggers (previously contributing to our local economy and helping keep the forests healthy) out of the woods so that there is so much undergrowth and densities to our current fire. That late snow we had dumped enough moisture onto the forest to clearly warrant such a situation. For the single individual or group of individuals (committee) that made the decision to lift the fire restrictions (on OUR forest) this past weekend, you deserve a pay raise, a pat on the back, applause from your tree hugging colleagues and a boot in your ASSES! I'm sure you'll move right on up the political ladder and you deserve to sit down with the rest of the scum that sits in those same "elite group" of political chairs. A special thanks also goes out to the visitors from Benson who saw fit to have start a fire and then take a nice "skip" down to the river, while leaving their fire unattended. Needless to say, you likely started what will turn into the second (2nd) Rodeo-Chedeski fire. Thanks for coming to the White Mountains.....your visit and it's effects will be seen for many years to come. You left a great heritage in your place. Since there will likely be little to no repercussions and/or consequences to you personally for your visit, I wish you the best. In reality the $100 that they could deduct from your paycheck for the rest of your lives won't amount to anything. Putting you into our prison system wouldn't do anything either, I mean we put people into prison at $60k/year to help rehabilitate bad behavior. You didn't behave badly you simply forgot to use common sense. Prison nor anything else can reform stupid. Again a big pat on the back to all those involved, especially our stand up US Forest Circus. You guys are a bunch of DUMB ASSES!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ultramag Report post Posted June 3, 2011 I think I will have to agree with you on the above. You can't fix stupid. We saw that the weather was going to be windy and very low humidty. It was hard to believe that you could legally still have a fire. This was something that was forecast for days before the big weekend, It was no surprise that these fires are breaking out. The loging part is something that I can't understand no matter how deep in thought I try to think about it. on the flip side some fires are a good thing and hopefully this could be a positive thing. Treehugers want us out of the forest completely no matter what, I don't think this was a treehuger move, just a dumb move from our wonderful goverment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AzHuntingAddict Report post Posted June 3, 2011 Send the tree huggers out to fight the fire! Let them see what their mental-ity does to the forrest. I couldnt agree with you more coues7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pwrguy Report post Posted June 3, 2011 You make some good points. I really think the key is in the management of the forest, not the users. Morons will alway's find ways to start fires even when there are restrictions in place. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
youngbuck Report post Posted June 3, 2011 It is obvious that some kind of management needs and needed to be done. I would bet the FS dind't want to maintain the forest in that country because it isn't easy to get around in. Controlled burns would have been "dificult" and could easily get un-controlled. I bet the loggers wouldn't have minded the challenge. It could have been very benificial. I stated in the other thread that this fire has been a very long time coming. I really hope Alpine is spared. I haven't heard what was saved in Hannagan's Meadow. I wish the best for everybody that may be impacted by this fire. We all, here, can see what healthy fires can do for wildlife. We are familiar with the benefits to the elk of the R/C fire. It was a shame the structures lost and lives that were negatively impacted. I was talking to my uncle about the Wallow fire today. He told me about the negative impact the R/C had on canyon creek. He's not a hunter but an avid fly fisherman. He brought another point I didn't think about. Black river will filled with that run off for a long time. I don't know what will happen with the snow melt this next spring, and how many potential promlems that will cause with mud slides. It's a bad deal all the way around. That country could have used years of maintainance between controlled ground burns and logging. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
clinthamblin Report post Posted June 3, 2011 Well said young buck Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MattMan Report post Posted June 3, 2011 It's not just the FS... EVERY action to do something other than leave the forests to ruin are stopped by Sierra Club and others in courts... this particular area is was 'critical habitat' for several T&E species. I have to wonder if the idiots filing these lawsuits to stop anything and everything ever thought that maybe a healthy forest is better than no forest. An apex ecosystem such as old growth conifer is exactly that, apex. It's NOT permanent... one way or the other it changes, whether through responsible thinning and logging, or catastrophic fire. It seems many, even a portion that work there, have forgotten the fact that the Forest Service is part of the Department of AGRICULTURE, not the Department of the Interior. Cattle and Timber production are AGRICULTURE... parks and recreation are NOT. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AZ_XL7 Report post Posted June 3, 2011 Its depressing to know the areas that some of us were just in a month ago are now gone and will never be the same in our life time. How hard is it really to tend to your camp fire. How hard is it to care about the forrest that mother nature provided us with? One careless act has now changed a few thousand lives and god knows how many animals for a long time to come. God bless unit 27 and the residents of alpine. It wont do a bit of good but i hope the people responsible for this pay for the rest of there lives. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
111 Report post Posted June 3, 2011 This fire has gone from 60,000 acres yesterday evening to 106,000 acres overnight. That's a lot of acres burnt up in a short time. Hopefully the winds die down so they can try and get some containment on it soon! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firstcoueswas80 Report post Posted June 3, 2011 I was at Lake Pleasant this weekend too... Some intelligent people around us decided to have a fire in the 40+ MPH winds, not to mention them being restricted... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Non-Typical Solutions Report post Posted June 3, 2011 I was at Lake Pleasant this weekend too... Some intelligent people around us decided to have a fire in the 40+ MPH winds, not to mention them being restricted... My wife asked me today.....about the unattended fire that caused this Wallow fire... Do you really think people ar that dumb??? Uhhhhh, yes they are........ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Payne Report post Posted June 3, 2011 It's not just the FS... EVERY action to do something other than leave the forests to ruin are stopped by Sierra Club and others in courts... this particular area is was 'critical habitat' for several T&E species. I have to wonder if the idiots filing these lawsuits to stop anything and everything ever thought that maybe a healthy forest is better than no forest. An apex ecosystem such as old growth conifer is exactly that, apex. It's NOT permanent... one way or the other it changes, whether through responsible thinning and logging, or catastrophic fire. It seems many, even a portion that work there, have forgotten the fact that the Forest Service is part of the Department of AGRICULTURE, not the Department of the Interior. Cattle and Timber production are AGRICULTURE... parks and recreation are NOT. Thanks for saying this. There are many of us in the Forest Service that would like to see things managed differently but our hands are tied in so many ways. I am definately not saying the Forest Service makes all the right decisions but there are many of us that agree that logging, ranching, and prescribed burns are crucial to replacing the low intensity fires that would naturally reduce the fuels every few years before we all came along. I know the Forest Service is not popular on this site and I can understand some of the reasons why but please know that there are fellow hunters and lovers of the outdoors within the agency that are really trying to make a difference for the good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BML Report post Posted June 3, 2011 It's not just the FS... EVERY action to do something other than leave the forests to ruin are stopped by Sierra Club and others in courts... this particular area is was 'critical habitat' for several T&E species. I have to wonder if the idiots filing these lawsuits to stop anything and everything ever thought that maybe a healthy forest is better than no forest. An apex ecosystem such as old growth conifer is exactly that, apex. It's NOT permanent... one way or the other it changes, whether through responsible thinning and logging, or catastrophic fire. It seems many, even a portion that work there, have forgotten the fact that the Forest Service is part of the Department of AGRICULTURE, not the Department of the Interior. Cattle and Timber production are AGRICULTURE... parks and recreation are NOT. Thanks for saying this. There are many of us in the Forest Service that would like to see things managed differently but our hands are tied in so many ways. I am definately not saying the Forest Service makes all the right decisions but there are many of us that agree that logging, ranching, and prescribed burns are crucial to replacing the low intensity fires that would naturally reduce the fuels every few years before we all came along. I know the Forest Service is not popular on this site and I can understand some of the reasons why but please know that there are fellow hunters and lovers of the outdoors within the agency that are really trying to make a difference for the good. Brian, Thank you for all you and the rest of you guys' do. I was finally able to get a few texts in with my brother today. He's with the FS up in Happy Jack. I've been telling him about how a few guys are really bashing the work of the FS and how it was really starting to agitate the heck out of me. He basically told me to just let it be. There is so much beurocratic red tape and hoops to jump through any time the FS wants to do anything like a control burn or thinning that the majority of the time they are told no. He said 99% of the people will never understand it and will just take the easy way out and blame the FS. Just something they deal with every single day. Thanks again man. Stay safe out there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billrquimby Report post Posted June 3, 2011 Here in Greer, we've been told to "prepare" to evacuate in case the wind changes and sends the fire this way. I've looked around the cabin and decided the only things I'll take are my guns, copies of books I've written, some plaques I've been presented, and this computer. I've 14 mounts on the walls, plus a couple thousand dollars worth of tools, but I'll have to leave them if we're told to get out on a couple of hours' notice. My wife's list is much longer. What hurts is that I've spent nearly 40 years building this cabin and am only a couple of years away from completing it. It's insured, but at today's prices for materials and labor, I probably won't be able to replace it. The aspens would return in a couple of years, but I'll never see pines and firs on my property again if everything burns. Greer's air is clear for the first time in two days now, but Eagar and Springerville are filled with thick smoke and cold ash. Residents with respiratory problems have been told they probably should leave before it gets worse. Bill Quimby Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billrquimby Report post Posted June 4, 2011 Thank you so much for your kind offer! We've talked with the local fire captain and he claims the winds are such that the fire PROBABLY won't reach Greer, although he's not guaranteeing that. At any rate it's still 12-15 air miles from us. We've notified everyone we know in the village to keep us posted. We've also got stuff packed and can leave with a few minutes notice. Will reassess our options in the morning based on what we see. Bill Quimby Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
