308Nut Report post Posted April 16, 2011 After 5 trips to the range I finally got my new Thompson Center muzzleloader to shoot better than 2-3" 100 yard groups. I have come to realize that they are like centerfire rifles. They like a specifec bullet, powder and combo between the 2. Couple that with getting the sabot lined up straight and seated in the same spot every time these freakin things are finiky. Its a good thing I have all summer to practice and work any bugs out. I am going to go on a spot and stalk black bear hunt maybe next month or early June. That should be the real test of how well I can do with these smoke poles. There is no better test and experience than field tests and experiences. If there are any problems in my system, better to figure it out chasing black bears rather than bugles 50 cal (45 cal saboted) Barnes 290 grain Spit-Fire TMZ's ahead of 115 grains (81 weighed grains) of Blackhorn 209 ahead of a CCI209M primer. 3/4" center to center on the nose. Now I am really getting excited! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pwrguy Report post Posted April 16, 2011 Pretty good. Amazing what these black powders can do these days, especially in the hands of someone who already knows how to shoot Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coach Report post Posted April 16, 2011 Nice job! I think you were way faster at finding your load than most ML hunters. I had mine all dialed in, and then Hornady changed the plastic they use in their sabots to make them easier to load. I never would have imagined how much that affected my groups. In a panic (had a ML bull tag and a gun shooting all over) I bought everything I could locally and still didn't get my groups back where I had seen them. Ended up killing my bull @ 257 yards, but the bullet performance was terrible to say the least. I'm going to look at the Barnes now, since Hornady's won't shoot well in this gun, and the TC bullets from wally world are total junk. Even if they hit where you aim, they poke little holes, disintegrate and leave all the clean-up work for follow-up shots. Glad you found a winning combination. I'm assuming you are using loose Buckhorn 209 to get 115 grains, but what do you mean 81 "weighed" grains? I'm confused about the 34 grain difference. Where does the 115 number come from? Just curious, because I've got to get my ML shooting again, and this is a gun I've seen shoot 3" groups at 300 yards and now I can't get 3" at 100 yards. I'd like to use your system to get back on track, but I need to understand it first. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
308Nut Report post Posted April 16, 2011 Glad you found a winning combination. I'm assuming you are using loose Buckhorn 209 to get 115 grains, but what do you mean 81 "weighed" grains? I'm confused about the 34 grain difference. Where does the 115 number come from? If you set your powder measure device for 120 grains, dump powder into it you have 120 volumetric grains. Dump that into a grain scale and you should have around 84 grains. I read somewhere that the multiplier for conversion is 0.7 or weighed units are 70% of volume measurments. By doing this I came up with 120 * .7 = 84 grains of 'weighed' powder. After checking volumetric measurments against weight measurments, I came up with between 82 and 85 grains of weighed measurements with the brass measure set for 120 grains. Which is consistent with the * .7 formula. Unfortunately, a 3 grain spread cant be good for accuracy. That said, if you weighed out 120 grains of BH209 and fired it under a 300 grain slug (I am no expert here so I dont know) I would venture to say that you would have a bomb in your face. When BH states to use up to 120 grains of powder, they are refering to the 'volumetric' grains. So, I wanted to test different charge weights without killing myself. After being unhappy with the accuracy of using a standard powder measure, I deceided to weigh my charges. Knowing that 84 weighed grains (120 volumetric) was maximum, I wanted to start low and work up. I wanted to go with 5 volumetric grain increments to start. So I weighed out 67 grains (95 VG) and went from there. 115 VG or 81 weighed grains was definately a sweet spot. Afterwards, I set my powder measure as closely as I could to 115 since it is made for 10 grain increments starting at 50. Even using this method the accuracy was fair. It was not as nice as the 3/4" group but it was a nice and tidy triangle group I would be happy to hunt with. I found the same thing yesterday with weighing charges of Pyrodex Select FFG. Groups tightend up from 3" to 1.5" between weighing charges and dumping them into the measure. Take this info with a grain of salt. I am FAR from an expert and I have only scratched the surface and have ALOT to learn. Most of what I have learned about muzzleloading so far has been right here on this site. I love this site!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewp45 Report post Posted April 16, 2011 Try shooting the 248? grain powerbelts 50 cal. of course with 150 grains of Pyrex triple 7 pellets. Those Power Belts perform unbelievable. When I killed my deer this year it amazed me at how well those bullets held up and the absolute perfect distruction to the liver and heart. I use the Nikon Omega scope and it shoots sub 1" groups at 100 yards and sub 3" goups at 250 yards no problem. That combo turned my TC Triumph into a bad a$% muzzle loader. I can easily hit a 5" circle every shot at 300 yards. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
308Nut Report post Posted April 16, 2011 Try shooting the 248? grain powerbelts 50 cal. of course with 150 grains of Pyrex triple 7 pellets. Those Power Belts perform unbelievable. When I killed my deer this year it amazed me at how well those bullets held up and the absolute perfect distruction to the liver and heart. I use the Nikon Omega scope and it shoots sub 1" groups at 100 yards and sub 3" goups at 250 yards no problem. That combo turned my TC Triumph into a bad a$% muzzle loader. I can easily hit a 5" circle every shot at 300 yards. Wow! I would be thrilled if I could hit a 5" circle at 300 yards. Or an 8" circle for that matter. I should be able to get to the 200 yard range tomorrow and see how she does at 200 yards. Then MAYBE 300 if she does well at 200. I have wanted the tag you had for a while. I had enough points to draw it in 09 and was torn between a Dec CWT tag and the muzzy deer tag. I ended up cashing in my points on the CWT. It worked out great since I would have been using my cousins gear. He also drew the same CWT tag and would not have been able to share his gear a couple of units away! Thanks for the tips. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sjvcon Report post Posted May 4, 2011 Try shooting the 248? grain powerbelts 50 cal. of course with 150 grains of Pyrex triple 7 pellets. Those Power Belts perform unbelievable. When I killed my deer this year it amazed me at how well those bullets held up and the absolute perfect distruction to the liver and heart. I use the Nikon Omega scope and it shoots sub 1" groups at 100 yards and sub 3" goups at 250 yards no problem. That combo turned my TC Triumph into a bad a$% muzzle loader. I can easily hit a 5" circle every shot at 300 yards. I was always told that with Triple 7's you should not go more than 100 Grains (rough equivalent of 150 grains of pyrodex) if you want your barrel to last and you want your sabot to do what it is supposed to and maintain your accuracy. I guess that is Hooey!!! That said, I have no trouble hitting a 6" steel plate at 200 yards (most times ... 1x scopes take some steady hands) with 2-50 Grain Triple Seven's and a 250 Grain Barnes T-EZ. Someone told me to get 20 Gauge Wads and make a sabot "chair" with those all copper bullets because they don't deform enough with the powder charge to conform to the barrel and get stabilized, but I have not done that. Doesn't seem to hurt what I can hit so far. NICE GROUP 308 ... REALLY NICE!!!!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
