Virgin needs some breaking in

[308Nut]

So guys, I am a complete muzzleloader hunting virgin. While I have a fair bit of elk hunting experience mostly with archery I have none with muzzleloading. So, my question is this. First lets say I realize when an elk is quartering to or facing the hunter, they are a couple of the worst possible archery shots. Now if it were my 338 Edge, a frontal or quartering to shot would be taken without question. So the question is how about a muzzleloader? Do you take frontal or quartering to shots or not. Is there enough horsepower there to break up the shoulder bones or am I lokking for broadside shots or quartering away shots only? Does using a round ball versus a conical make a difference in this context?

 

Thanks for the help guys.

[WHALE]

Good question and topic. My brother drew an early Muzzle loader tag and we no experience with a muzzle loader. It is gonna be a learning summer. Any other tips towards muzzle loader elk would be great. Is 50 cal the best option with accuracy, ballistics and knock down power or I heard some talk for a 45? Any help? Good topic 308.

[AzHuntingAddict]

In my opinion, I would say hold off for a broadside shot as you only have one shot with a muzzie. 50. cal should have enough power to blow thru a shoulder, but I think the key here is the powder being used along with your bullet choice. You need to see what bullets work with different powders as each will react differently in your rifle vs someone elses. Conical bullets or sabot rounds will retain energy better and expand more than round at longer ranges, but round is great for shorter ranges.

[billrquimby]

Good question and topic. My brother drew an early Muzzle loader tag and we no experience with a muzzle loader. It is gonna be a learning summer. Any other tips towards muzzle loader elk would be great. Is 50 cal the best option with accuracy, ballistics and knock down power or I heard some talk for a 45? Any help? Good topic 308.

 

I have no idea about what kind of penetration you might get with today's muzzleloaders and loads. Back when I hunted a lot of small whitetails in the Texas Hill Country with .45-caliber round and mini balls from replica flintlock and percussion longrifles, we found that round balls would shoot clear through those little deer without knocking them down with side-on shots unless we broke a shoulder and ruined a lot of meat. The miniballs would drop them on the spot with behind-the-shoulder shots. Both types killed cleanly with front-on and quartering shots.

 

In those days, whatever a .45 could do to a deer, a .50 could do better -- and a .54 was the caliber of choice for elk. We shot patched round balls or mini balls, and limited our shots to 75 yards and under. With three and four deer limits, depending upon the year, we killed a lot of deer with black powder over the dozen years we hunted there.

 

Bill Quimby

[.270]

i've shot a muzzleloader a lot. killed several elk with one. lotsa deer. with these newer inlines, using the pyrodex pellets and sabots, you can shoot an elk that is in range from any angle you want with great success. 200 yards is a reasonable shot for most modern muzzleloaders that are loaded for it. if you are having to use a traditional rifle, like in colorado, i'd suggest a conical bullet over a round ball and keep your shots to 125 yards or so. a straight on shot, even with a bow, ain't a bad shot. killed a couple bulls that way. with a muzzleloader, in range, you ain't gonna have much trouble killing him. you just have to get the bullet between the ribs on both sides. solid lead bullets in a traditional muzzlelaoder don't seem to cause a lot of tissue damage and the elk just sorta bleed to death. seen a bunch of em that don't even act hit, until they run outta blood. there doesn't seem to be a lot of deflection of the bullets when they hit an animal, but they will turn some when they hit big bones and when they hit the skin on the offside. shot one with a almost 90 degree side shot in the lungs. the maxiball ended up where the white rump patch starts on his hip. it hit the skin and went down it to where it stopped. that was a tc hawken using blackpowder. Lark,

[Weston]

I do quite a bit of muzzleloading in Nebraska for deer, I have taken one front on shot and a couple quartering shots, I shoot a 50 cal with hornady sabots and have never had an issue, I push it with 175 grains of powder and blew clean through on all of these shots.

[308Nut]

Thanks for all the info.

 

What is typically the minimum velocity required for good and reliable expansion? Or is that a question for the various manufacturers?

[DesertBull]

http://www.prbullet.com/bal.htm

 

http://www.prbullet.com/pts.htm

 

I love these ML'er bullets.

[308Nut]

http://www.prbullet.com/bal.htm

 

http://www.prbullet.com/pts.htm

 

I love these ML'er bullets.

 

I bought some of PR's Dead Center 240 grain pills yesterday. What do you think about these for elk?

[youngbuck]

I don't know much about MLing, but I was pretty impressed last fall. I helped on a ML antelope hunt. They were using .44 cal hangun hunting bullets. At 225yds there was a 1" diameter hole completely through the goat. I've never seen anything like it. Ill find out the particulars.

[hunter4life]

Velocity and thus energy drops off pretty quickly with muzzleloaders. Keep your shots to a reasonable distance and you should not have a problem. I shoot a .45 caliber Knight in line with 200 grain Hornady SST sabots and have killed several coues deer, 2 antelope and a bull elk with this combination. I keep shots under 200 yards. The elk was killed at 150 yards broadside and the bullet stopped under the skin on the far shoulder. He only made it 2 steps after the shot. My brother also shoots the Hornady bullets in his .50 cal and has had good results. Good luck, hunting with a muzzleloader is challenging and fun. You will find yourself saying, "I sure wish I had a centerfire rifle because stalking in this last 50-100 yards is going to be tough."

[.270]

all i ever used were hornady xtp's. 240 gr .44's in a .50 and 250 gr .45's in a .54. they are a high velocity pistol bullet. they work great. Lark.

[BRYCE CANYON]

I like the Hornady XTP in a sabot for a 50 cal rifle. The 300 grain bullet works great for elk.

[More D]

MZ hunting is FUN! I only apply for elk with a MZ. The MZ rifles I have had all had potential for good to great accuracy if you were willing to find the right primer, powder, powder charge, bullet, bullet weight, sabot combo. I have learned more about bullet dynamics and long range shooting from your post so finding the right combo should be a cinch for you.

As stated before they can be accurate but they don't carry the energy out to long distances. Just look up the B.C. of the bullets. They are about as sleek as a brick. Keep the distance to 200yrds max. I too have used the XP and they worked great. Now my new MZ likes the Barnes MZ expander 300gn. I can verify they open up just like the pics out to 170+ yards.

 

I'd love to hear about your progress on finding a load. I bet the 'virgin' will teach us something....