Land Access

[BikerRN]

Howdy all,

 

Being as I have been on both sides of the coin, hunter wanting access, and employee of large land owners wanting to keep the public off their private property, I am wondering what many think the solution is?

 

I've developed the opinion that while ranchers need vast amounts of public land, they do not have a right to treat it as if it were their personal domain. Yes, they can block off private property, and should probably do so, but they should then be required to provide some form of access to the public lands behind their property that is consistant in nature with the means of getting to their private property.

 

Slob Hunters and Idiots need to be policed, if not by themselves then by us. Making roads where there isn't a road, shooting signs, and destroying fences needs to be harshly and swiftly dealt with. I can understand a rancher's frustration when these issues are confronted year after year, with little recourse or remedy. In conjunction with that, we the land owning public that actually pays the taxes and own the public lands need to have access to what is rightfully our's.

 

The blocking off of public lands by the few wealthy enough to own private land in conjunction with public land is against fairness and the American way in my humble opinion. If I can't enjoy my public land, what the heck am I paying taxes for on it? We have equal access to other things in our society, why not the out of the city areas that many of us like to frequent? The whole situation smacks of favoratism that harkens back to the cattle ranching days when Arizona was a territory. It's time to change some of the ways we do things.

 

What say you all?

 

Biker

[missedagain]

Howdy all,

 

Being as I have been on both sides of the coin, hunter wanting access, and employee of large land owners wanting to keep the public off their private property, I am wondering what many think the solution is?

 

I've developed the opinion that while ranchers need vast amounts of public land, they do not have a right to treat it as if it were their personal domain. Yes, they can block off private property, and should probably do so, but they should then be required to provide some form of access to the public lands behind their property that is consistant in nature with the means of getting to their private property.

 

Slob Hunters and Idiots need to be policed, if not by themselves then by us. Making roads where there isn't a road, shooting signs, and destroying fences needs to be harshly and swiftly dealt with. I can understand a rancher's frustration when these issues are confronted year after year, with little recourse or remedy. In conjunction with that, we the land owning public that actually pays the taxes and own the public lands need to have access to what is rightfully our's.

 

The blocking off of public lands by the few wealthy enough to own private land in conjunction with public land is against fairness and the American way in my humble opinion. If I can't enjoy my public land, what the heck am I paying taxes for on it? We have equal access to other things in our society, why not the out of the city areas that many of us like to frequent? The whole situation smacks of favoratism that harkens back to the cattle ranching days when Arizona was a territory. It's time to change some of the ways we do things.

 

What say you all?

 

Biker

 

The first thing that I think needs to change is that ranchers should not be able to restrict access to leased land, deeded fine, but leased land is still public land. The second thing that I don't agree with is that if I have private land and your private land land locks mine I have the right to an easement for access. Well I think it shouldn't be any different if the only reasonable access to public land is through your private then I think there should be an easement granted.

[BikerRN]

I think we are on the same page here missed.

 

Biker

[Red Rabbit]

Get rid of the checkerboard.

[CEI]

Somebody once told me & this is true... "Anyone can give me a problem, I need REAL solutions!"

 

I will say it again, LAND USE & access is our #1 threat & I don't have a solution. The COST of hunting is at an ALL TIME HIGH & you have to travel further to do it. PLACES are more crowded than ever, with less hunters because there is less area to hunt! Unit 18A, Unit 10, 19A & others all have LOTS of checkerboard & land access issues. It's not going to get better, the game & fish or state is not buying land, heck people (ranchers) are selling it & it's getting subdivided & the first thing that goes up is a NO TRESPASS SIGN (lots of times by hunters). I don't think you can stop it, YOU have to ADAPT & I believe we will continue to LOSE more hunters, more votes & we will see increase tag fees because ONLY the guys who value it will be left.

 

I reported a so-called outfitter this year for harassing me while on Stat-Trust land. 4 phone calls & it's not resolved & I reported him because if I was just an average joe-blow with my wife or daughter, it would have scared the crap out of me. I was told that I did the right thing & I was harassed.

 

A few year's back a Squater shot his pistol at my dad while driving down a sub-division road. My dad is 6'3" 230 lbs & was born & raised in Arizona will not even go around that area, even though he did nothing wrong. This was reported & nothing ever happened...

 

SORRY, I will step off my soap box!

 

Get rid of the checkerboard.

[BikerRN]

But how do we do that and keep private property rights?

 

Come on folks, I'm trying to generate some discussion here that has the potential of making things better for all concerned.

 

Biker

[youngbuck]

Seems like the property owner should be allowed to hunt his own land (assuming he has a valid tag for the area). He should also allow people to hunt it, at his discresion. It is insane what some guys will way but it is supply and demand. If the land owner can make a buck or two for some one using their land, I'm ok with it. I will never pay some one an acess fee or use fee. The hunter payed the AZGFD for the animal, and the land owner for use of the land. I do think its wrong that a land owner can deny thousands of public acres just by locking a gate. I also see the land owner's point of view. I wouldn't want a bunch of yahoos running around my land. I learned from older guys whol learned from older guys. If some one is nice enough to let you use their land, pay them back. Offer to do some work, say thank you, give them some game meat. If things stay the same, I'll do what I always have, find another way in and wear out some boot leather.

[CEI]

I agree 100% with you!

 

Seems like the property owner should be allowed to hunt his own land (assuming he has a valid tag for the area). He should also allow people to hunt it, at his discresion. It is insane what some guys will way but it is supply and demand. If the land owner can make a buck or two for some one using their land, I'm ok with it. I will never pay some one an acess fee or use fee. The hunter payed the AZGFD for the animal, and the land owner for use of the land. I do think its wrong that a land owner can deny thousands of public acres just by locking a gate. I also see the land owner's point of view. I wouldn't want a bunch of yahoos running around my land. I learned from older guys whol learned from older guys. If some one is nice enough to let you use their land, pay them back. Offer to do some work, say thank you, give them some game meat. If things stay the same, I'll do what I always have, find another way in and wear out some boot leather.

[AntlerObsession]

I agree 100% with you!

 

If some one is nice enough to let you use their land, pay them back. Offer to do some work, say thank you, give them some game meat. If things stay the same, I'll do what I always have, find another way in and wear out some boot leather.

Forest Service has its methods of dealing with this ie Bulldog Canyon east of Phoenix. I honestly wouldn't care if someone came 6 months before the season, offered me a business card, their vehicle Id info, and offered to help me mend fences, or clear a ditch some Saturday before the hunt. I might take them up on the service, I might not, but that dude is light years closer to getting access than anyone showing up the day before.

 

The 'No Trespassing' sign isnt for people who are willing to come talk to me. It's for uninvited guests who have complete disregard for owners rights and the fact that a little courtesy/forethought/due diligence can get you through more locked gates than any bolt cutters could. The checker board is hard, but a little effort goes a long way, and the willingness to be accountable by providing Id info may be the difference. With Forest Service it has... a little.

[Pine Donkey]

My uncle had a sizeable ranch in cochise county. The area was very popular with dirt bike and ATV riders as well as target shooters. For years he fought vandalism to windmills, tanks, corrals, Feces and livestock. Thousands of dollars and hours were spent repairing the damage, but we could never catch up.

 

Finally our local game manager, Brad Falk approached my uncle with a new program called adopt a ranch. The group that adopted his ranch was the nomad motercycle club. Not only did they provide a great amount of free labor, they provided many vigilant eyes who helped watch over the place. The vandalism dropped to almost nothing.

 

This program, along with access programs operated by game and fish, have opened many acres.

 

Groups such as the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation have used conservation easements to secure thousands of acres for access and preserve them for future generations.

 

All of these programs are a way of offering the landowner an incentive to allow access to his land.

 

One piece that is still missing is legislation requireing all lease holders of public lands to provide access to them even if it means they have to cross private lands.

 

Beyond these steps the basic fact remains that private lands belong to the owner. They have full rights to use their lands as the wish. They should not be forced or legislated to give up their rights. Afterall, how is taking a persons property rights away much different then taking their gun rights.

[BikerRN]

One piece that is still missing is legislation requireing all lease holders of public lands to provide access to them even if it means they have to cross private lands.

 

I think that is a key feature, that I would like to see the legislature address.

 

Biker

[DesertBull]

My uncle had a sizeable ranch in cochise county. The area was very popular with dirt bike and ATV riders as well as target shooters. For years he fought vandalism to windmills, tanks, corrals, Feces and livestock. Thousands of dollars and hours were spent repairing the damage, but we could never catch up.

 

Finally our local game manager, Brad Falk approached my uncle with a new program called adopt a ranch. The group that adopted his ranch was the nomad motercycle club. Not only did they provide a great amount of free labor, they provided many vigilant eyes who helped watch over the place. The vandalism dropped to almost nothing.

 

This program, along with access programs operated by game and fish, have opened many acres.

 

Groups such as the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation have used conservation easements to secure thousands of acres for access and preserve them for future generations.

 

All of these programs are a way of offering the landowner an incentive to allow access to his land.

 

One piece that is still missing is legislation requireing all lease holders of public lands to provide access to them even if it means they have to cross private lands.

 

Beyond these steps the basic fact remains that private lands belong to the owner. They have full rights to use their lands as the wish. They should not be forced or legislated to give up their rights. Afterall, how is taking a persons property rights away much different then taking their gun rights.

 

But does the road going through their land belong to them or just the land on either side of it?

 

I say if you deny the public access to public land, then keep your cattle off public land also.

[azslim]

I see both sides of the issue, as a hunter I hate honoring No Trespassing signs when you see game in the private ground, from growing up on a ranch I hated all the extra work and money spent cleaning up the mess of a few pinheads. At the family ranch in Wy if there wasn't a No Trespassing sign people didn't even bother to stop. A few days before antelope season opens the solar panels on the wells are taken down so they don't get shot, during the deer and antelope seasons we had to check the fences and gates off the hiway every few days, usually have to fix a gate or cut fence at least twice a season. Have had water tanks shot up, cattle killed, busted fences galore and trash, and this is in Wyoming where the population of the entire state is less than one town in the valley. People would bitch about the private hunting grounds, yep, when my Great-Great-Grandfather homesteaded in 1880's that was what he was thinking - we need private hunting grounds. Started shutting off access when the effort to clean up the mess was no longer worth it.

[CEI]

As Creed mentioned in the Antelope hunting section State-Trust Land is not considered Public Land. To be on State-Trust Land you must have a PERMIT. Your hunting & fishing licenses does count as your permit, but only if you are ACTIVELY hunting or fishing. You can purchase a special use permit, if you are camping, scouting or shed hunting on State-Trust Land. Nobody usually enforces this, but its a law.

 

Checkerboard land & access is going to continue to be an issue in Arizona & other states. I don't blame a Rancher for trying to make a buck or two & I get a little jealous, but that's human nature.

 

I see both sides of the issue, as a hunter I hate honoring No Trespassing signs when you see game in the private ground, from growing up on a ranch I hated all the extra work and money spent cleaning up the mess of a few pinheads. At the family ranch in Wy if there wasn't a No Trespassing sign people didn't even bother to stop. A few days before antelope season opens the solar panels on the wells are taken down so they don't get shot, during the deer and antelope seasons we had to check the fences and gates off the hiway every few days, usually have to fix a gate or cut fence at least twice a season. Have had water tanks shot up, cattle killed, busted fences galore and trash, and this is in Wyoming where the population of the entire state is less than one town in the valley. People would bitch about the private hunting grounds, yep, when my Great-Great-Grandfather homesteaded in 1880's that was what he was thinking - we need private hunting grounds. Started shutting off access when the effort to clean up the mess was no longer worth it.

[elkaholic]

Sure is easy to sit here and complain ya want access across someones land -

 

What most land owners are willing to do - is offer - a no vechile easement - thus it allows a more limited access.!

 

It's easier to control!

 

All i can say - when it comes to my land - You have nosay or rights !