Chino Grande Ranch 19B

[.270]

if the game and fish did decide to not allow any permits in that unit, i think it's one of the slickest things they've ever done. i might quit bashin' em so much. i would imagine some outfitter (have no clue who but i could make a guess) got ahold of the landowner and said "hey dude, i'll give ya 5 grand for every hunter i take on your place if you'll lock it up and just let me take hunters on it". the rancher thinks about it and says "how many you talkin' about?" the outfitters says "well, it depends, but i should have several guys interested. and money ain't no object to these guys. they might pay even more". "ok" says the rancher "we got a deal. only you and your rich guys get to hunt here". so the azgfd says screw it, we just won't let out any permits, thus nobody can hunt anywhere in the unit and we'll starve em out. nobody can hunt in the unit, thus no rich guys can get drawn and shifty outfritter and mister landowner can't make a dime on the deal. i'm impressed. too bad it come to this, but i'm impressed. i'm sure lawsuits are to follow. i wonder if the guy who buys the auction tag can hunt there? it's in Az and such. this is interesting and is gonna be fun to watch. Lark.

[DesertBull]

I don't think selling electricity is going to go belly up any time soon, if they have the capital to get the solar thing running, those solar panels might as well be collecting dollar bills streamed down from the sun. I'm not saying it is right to put that stuff on the non-private land, but I sure wouldn't want guns anywhere near an operation like that given the frequency of shot up signs all over the AZ wilderness. If they do put the solar up, I'm sure the ranch will have antelope hunters on it eventually, through the draw w/ trespass fees and guides, or landowner tags or something. There will be a pile of great goats in there if there is no hunting for any length of time, someone will realize those goats have dollar signs on them as well and will work something out to get hunters in there. When there is economic incentive, things usually get worked out.

 

 

The ROI on solar electricity is low. It cost an arm and a leg to get it up and running and takes a butt load of money to get the power from the panel farms to those that buy it. To those that think we can be energy independent off of just solar...it ain't going to happen. I am all for solar power, but it's not the total answer. Either way, if it's a private business and it is sensitive to vandalism, theft, etc, then it needs to be on private land.

 

Kind of reminds me of the fiasco going on in Glendale over the Coyotes. They want to put $100M of bond money, backed by tax payers, so some billionaire from Chicago can have a hobby. The public should not be asked to fund private purchases / business start-ups.

[buglethemin]

if the game and fish did decide to not allow any permits in that unit, i think it's one of the slickest things they've ever done. i might quit bashin' em so much. i would imagine some outfitter (have no clue who but i could make a guess) got ahold of the landowner and said "hey dude, i'll give ya 5 grand for every hunter i take on your place if you'll lock it up and just let me take hunters on it". the rancher thinks about it and says "how many you talkin' about?" the outfitters says "well, it depends, but i should have several guys interested. and money ain't no object to these guys. they might pay even more". "ok" says the rancher "we got a deal. only you and your rich guys get to hunt here". so the azgfd says screw it, we just won't let out any permits, thus nobody can hunt anywhere in the unit and we'll starve em out. nobody can hunt in the unit, thus no rich guys can get drawn and shifty outfritter and mister landowner can't make a dime on the deal. i'm impressed. too bad it come to this, but i'm impressed. i'm sure lawsuits are to follow. i wonder if the guy who buys the auction tag can hunt there? it's in Az and such. this is interesting and is gonna be fun to watch. Lark.

 

 

If thats the case I agree 100% with you. I think the solar is a cop out, they have not even started with permits or anything. We will ever know the truth behind this. We shall see

[DubTee]

I don't think selling electricity is going to go belly up any time soon, if they have the capital to get the solar thing running, those solar panels might as well be collecting dollar bills streamed down from the sun. I'm not saying it is right to put that stuff on the non-private land, but I sure wouldn't want guns anywhere near an operation like that given the frequency of shot up signs all over the AZ wilderness. If they do put the solar up, I'm sure the ranch will have antelope hunters on it eventually, through the draw w/ trespass fees and guides, or landowner tags or something. There will be a pile of great goats in there if there is no hunting for any length of time, someone will realize those goats have dollar signs on them as well and will work something out to get hunters in there. When there is economic incentive, things usually get worked out.

 

 

The ROI on solar electricity is low. It cost an arm and a leg to get it up and running and takes a butt load of money to get the power from the panel farms to those that buy it. To those that think we can be energy independent off of just solar...it ain't going to happen. I am all for solar power, but it's not the total answer. Either way, if it's a private business and it is sensitive to vandalism, theft, etc, then it needs to be on private land.

 

Kind of reminds me of the fiasco going on in Glendale over the Coyotes. They want to put $100M of bond money, backed by tax payers, so some billionaire from Chicago can have a hobby. The public should not be asked to fund private purchases / business start-ups.

 

I agree with you on solar is not the final answer, but you can bet solar will be ramped up as oil prices remain volatile and China burns all the world's coal. The Barstow, CA solar project that started in the 80's has initial investments paid off, they might as well be printing money. Hopefully this will work out in the end, and some big goats get to be hunted in the near future.

[Outdoor Writer]

I killed my first AZ lope in 19B during the 1960s, and my son killed one in that unit -- his first big-game animal -- when he was 11. He's now 48, and 19B was our first choice for this year again, as it has been for many past years.

 

Anyway, here's the release from G&F:

 

Faced with the loss of access, Arizona Game and Fish Commission eliminates pronghorn hunts in 19B for 2011

 

March 24, 2011

 

 

 

PHOENIX – Faced with the loss of public access to a vast area of Game Management Unit 19B north of Prescott, the Arizona Game and Fish Commission on March 23 decided to cancel the pronghorn antelope hunt there prior to the big game draw for the 2011 season.

 

The commission’s decision affects the hunting prospects for 65 hunters who would have received allocated tags. Commission Chairman Robert Woodhouse said, “There have been closures of other hunt units for a season or more based on biological reasons such as severe winter die offs, loss of habitat due to fires, etc. ... but this was the first time a decision was made to eliminate hunt tags due to public access closures. This was a difficult decision made only after extensive staff input and a long discussion by the commission.”

 

During the discussion, commissioners pointed out that this was a “no-win situation” for the commission, the department, and for the hunters who applied for the general and archery pronghorn antelope hunts in Unit 19B this fall, but the commission was compelled to do what was most fair to all concerned.

 

Late last week, the property manager for the Chino Grande Ranch, which is a checkerboard of private and state trust land parcels, verbally notified the department that the ranch is now closed to public access, due to a proposed renewable energy project. Access to other portions of the unit has also become restricted, with some private lands being closed entirely and other ranches allowing access by payment of “trespass” fees.

 

The Chino Grande Ranch contains a significant portion of the available pronghorn habitat in 19B, and its lands also hold the greatest density of pronghorn numbers in the unit.

 

The deadline to apply for the upcoming draw was Feb. 8 and the draw results are pending, giving the commission only days to modify the affected hunts without affecting thousands of other hunters.

 

There are 4,780 people who applied for the 65 pronghorn antelope hunt permits in the two hunts (one general hunt and one archery hunt) scheduled for 19B. Game Branch Chief Brian Wakeling said “the antelope hunts in 19B are some of the most coveted in the state.”

 

The commission also considered reducing the number of permits in the hunt but after significant discussion, the members felt that option would do a disservice to those who applied, as the area left open for 2011 would differ substantially from that available when hunters applied in February.

 

With the elimination of these two hunts, the draw program will treat any choice where these hunts were selected as if all tags had been issued and move to the applicant’s next choice. The draw examines first and second choices primarily and then third, fourth, and fifth choices secondarily. The majority of the commissioners felt that to be the most equitable approach.

 

The commission also expressed its desire to open up a dialogue on the whole land access and wildlife availability issue with land management agencies, county governments and stakeholders to include hunters, anglers and other recreationists. At issue is access to public lands and state trust lands and the management of public resources, such as wildlife and fish.

[lefty]

that country up there holds some great memories for me and it is sad that it has come to this. it used to be called the CV or maybe that's the brand,anyways,a man named Mert used to own it. someone else might remember this, but he used to have buffalo up there in the '80's. my dad paid Mert and was able to shoot one of his buffalo.in high school my best friend always drew archery antelope up there, i would go help out and had a blast.we would also shoot a ton of rabbits up there with our bows.there were always a ton of prairie dogs to shoot up there too.many beers were drank around a campfire.in a sense,that part of the country was a part of my "growing up". there used to be a place for mentally handicap kids i believe. it was called the Starlight,maybe someone else remembers this. i can remember seeing the biggest bull elk i've ever seen in those cornfields out there.sorry for carrying on and on, there's just a lot of fond memories up there.the buffalo are long gone,my best friend has passed on,and now that beautiful piece of country will never be seen by these eyes again.it is truely sad what greed can do.

[DUG]

My 1st time applying for antelope was 1985 and I drew for 19B. I remember meeting Mert back then. He was trying to build a gate to open so you didn't have to get out of the truck. I shot a dink on the 3rd day. My friend shot a respectable 14 1/2 incher the 1st day. I remember seeing the buffalo pen too. 19B was our 2nd choice this year. Hopefully the wife gets her 1st choice.

[BML]

There has to be more to this whole story. There's no way in heck that rancher is making his decision to lock up the gates based solely on the "possibility" of a solar energy farm. According to the article in the Daily Courier the solar farm is still just in the "talks" phase. It's not even 100% that it's going on that ranch. Even IF it does go out there on the ranch, it's going to be years before all the permits and bureaucratic nonsense gets all straightened out so that they can actually start building out there.

 

They close the ranch after the draw in 2009.

 

They threaten to close the ranch in 2010, but left it open.

 

Now they close it up for good, before the draw.

 

 

I think the GFD did the right thing by just closing the unit to antelope hunting.

[.270]

i'll believe the solar deal when i see it. i know a little about electric generation. if there was something in the works they would have already applied for the first permits. that would have been in the paper. nobody builds anything "green" without a brass band and cheerleaders to tell the world about it. they need to build a powerline, a substation, have a sight picked out, need water, an engineering firm, contractors, sub contractors, need to get hooked up with the local REA or whoever is gonna wheel the power for em. anybody seen anything like that in the paper or even heard a rumor of it? and they need a dumptruck load o' money and grants and tax breaks and various other back scratchin'. i call BS on the solar deal. or even wind. they are both BS anyway. this stinks of somethin' else and i think we can all figger it out. if the azgfd thought there was some green deal goin' in they would know about it because one of the very first things you have to do is environmental impact studies that would involve the azgfd. so far, i applaud the azgfd. sucks to do it, but i think they did an end around that the rancher and the outfitter didn't see comin' and they are standin' there with their jocks around their ankles. my kid put in for that unit first choice too. i almost did. Lark.

[SirRoyal]

Hmmm ,Interesting if an outfitter was involved from that stand point I agree with AZGFD . Okay what about the Governors tag for antelope can he hunt there? of course based on a monster being on that property or for that matter in 19B Hmm.

 

 

 

 

 

i'll believe the solar deal when i see it. i know a little about electric generation. if there was something in the works they would have already applied for the first permits. that would have been in the paper. nobody builds anything "green" without a brass band and cheerleaders to tell the world about it. they need to build a powerline, a substation, have a sight picked out, need water, an engineering firm, contractors, sub contractors, need to get hooked up with the local REA or whoever is gonna wheel the power for em. anybody seen anything like that in the paper or even heard a rumor of it? and they need a dumptruck load o' money and grants and tax breaks and various other back scratchin'. i call BS on the solar deal. or even wind. they are both BS anyway. this stinks of somethin' else and i think we can all figger it out. if the azgfd thought there was some green deal goin' in they would know about it because one of the very first things you have to do is environmental impact studies that would involve the azgfd. so far, i applaud the azgfd. sucks to do it, but i think they did an end around that the rancher and the outfitter didn't see comin' and they are standin' there with their jocks around their ankles. my kid put in for that unit first choice too. i almost did. Lark.

[Tines]

Maybe it is to benefit some rancher and outfitter. We'll find out eventually. Sad deal, if so. The G & F must have had similar reasons to implement the OTC elk tags. Basically telling landowners "if the elk are that much of a problem, you'll let hunters on your land to take care of them."

 

I'll stick to my assumption from the beginning. The game and fish didn't respect Mr. Geare and his ranch.

[EliAGrimmett]

Auction Tag: It's always been my understanding that the units that are written on the tag are the units you're allowed to hunt. There are currently two hunters who haven't killed who bought the tags last season and one tag that has been sold this year and all of those should definitely be allowed to hunt 19B, but my Dad or I will be contacting G&F to find out for sure. Not that we would hunt 19B anyway.

[SirRoyal]

Eli : Thanks for posting ,lets us know what the Dept says.

 

By the way thanks for throwing the uncertainy in the mix!

[azpackhorse]

Here is YOUR chance to write the dept. and tell them exactly how you feel about this.

 

http://www.azgfd.gov/h_f/hunting_19b.shtml

[AZMThunter]

Just sent my 2 cents in to AZGFD.