Chino Grande Ranch 19B

[ehunt]

Has anyone else heard about this? I just recieved an email from G&F and I guess they are having a meeting tomorrow. Its sad that this happens, especially when G&F already allocated the tags in 19B assuming this ranch would be open! I read on the G&F website under the hunt units that this could cut 45 antelope permits! It will be interesting to see what happens next, but this might slow down draw results a little bit.

[4Falls]

Its unlikely G&F can do anything to prevent this. Its just the next domino to fall. Most of the northern half of 19b is very difficult to access.

[azslim]

like usual, only takes a couple of idiots doing stuff they know is wrong to screw it up for everybody - my guess is being hard on the land is the reason access will be cut.

[Rembrant]

Yep, a few bone heads shoot stuff up and the rancher closes off tons of public lands because the road goes through his private land.

 

But wait a minute... maybe the rancher is excercising his American free interprise rights. What? Yeah, there's lots of money to be made here. Isn't this some of the very best archery trophy antelope hunting ground in the world?

Even though we may be talking about large tracks of state (public) land, one guy can close it off because the road goes through his yard. When all this trophy antelope country is excluded from the public, the one guy can then allow anyone of his choosing to access the land.

Enter the big time guide. The big time guide solicites tag holders and finds clients that can pay thousands of dollars to hunt this publically managed, on public land, special trophy area that just became "private". Then the big time guide pays the rancher a big time access fee.

And all this can happen without 'Land Owner Tags' like other states do.

It's all about money, folks. Pure and simple.

 

Mike

[Rembrant]

So is it right or wrong?

If you can't afford to pay to play, and you're not the one making the money, it's wrong; If you can pay the money, or if you are the one making the money it's right.

A guy should be able to do with his private land what he chooses, and making money is good.

Public lands are public lands to be enjoyed by everyone.

I say cut a new road into the public land and bypass the private.

But wait a minute, some of the best whitetail country is protected by this very same situation.

How should this be sorted out?

[120carp]

if its the same ranch im thinking of he closed it a few years back. one of the ranch hands told us about it when we were a few miles in scouting. and he charges a lot of money to hunt there. its a good place to hunt though.

[jnobleinaz]

This is such F-ing BS I hope none of our ant permits get drawn since this is our first choice. We hunted there with my brother a few years ago when they closed it off. And then last year they said they reached a new agreement to have it stay open. Everyone that out in for 19b ant should have the chance to redo their application if this is the case. Not that you can predict an antelope tag but I do not want my app in for that unit if it is closed cause it SUCKS when it is closed.

[Red Rabbit]

http://azgfd.net/artman/publish/NewsMedia/Game-and-Fish-Commission-to-discuss-Chino-Grande-Ranch-at-March-23-meeting.shtml

 

At the 2009? hunt set meeting when the problem arose before, commissioner Freeman made a call during the commission meeting and was able to secure hunter access. I believe that outfitter dollars (as Mike/Rembrandt mentions) were the driving force behind the pending closure then.

 

Checkerboard lands do a lot to help diminish public access.

[CEI]

Red Rabbit is correct.... Checkerboarded lands are a mess & is slowly but surely shrinking our everyday guy hunting areas. Below is something I posted on another form & basically got little response. What do you guys think...

 

I live in AZ & I have never hunted outside of AZ. I started applying for NV, CO & Utah 5 years back. I apply for some quality hunts because if I am going to spend the money I want a quality tag. I also have started participating in several larger coyote hunts that will eventually led me away from AZ.

 

Now with that being said we have a problem in AZ with human encroachment, developed checker board land & many of the bigger ranches have closed their doors. Do you guys have these same issues?

 

 

AZ has very hunter friendly laws, as a private property owner must post such land properly. I know in several other states it is up to the hunter to know where he is & where private property begins. If we had these same rules, it would be a NIGHTMARE & the G&F would be buried with trespass pass cases. Honestly, many average hunters would probably turn it in, as many places are checker boarded & developed.

 

So, what is an average hunter?

 

Too me an average hunter is a guy that hunts local & does not stray to far from home. Maybe he shoots his rifle once or twice before the hunt & heads out to his general deer hunt the night before season. Bottom line is he doesn't make it a priority...

 

I have several friends that over the years have also begun applying for out-of-state hunts. I would not call these guys average, as they are some of the best hunters I personally know. If you look at the stats we are losing hunters & I believe it's the folks that don't value it like us. At some point I think applying out-of-state is going to be average because we will be the ones left & the ones that value it enough to fork out that kinda cash.

 

In Arizona I believe the two biggest land access issues are rural development of checker boarded land & a few ranches trying to close access to public land & not just their private property. Again, private property is private & I don't pay their taxes, so I have no problem with these guys charging fees to gain access.

 

Here is what my home county looks like on a GIS land status overlay:

Mohave County HOME of the Strip & Unit 10

 

General areas around my home town are getting piece milled too death! We can't all draw strip tags or unit 10 elk tags every year. The local areas that once held decent deer, pronghorn, elk, desert bighorn & predator hunting opportunities are getting developed to death. It's my opinion that this is major force in driving the average guy out of hunting & is taking the more serious guy to a new level. I did not apply out-of-state until 5 years ago & some of my friends are now also applying because the general units all have issues. Access, crowding & low deer densities...

My question is, as we lose more hunters (1990's AZ 165K, now 148K) are the guys left the ones willing to travel further & spend more money? Basically, what was the average hunter 10 year's ago, may no longer be the average hunter because the other guys aren't willing to adapt & spend the money.

 

http://azgfd.net/artman/publish/NewsMedia/Game-and-Fish-Commission-to-discuss-Chino-Grande-Ranch-at-March-23-meeting.shtml

 

At the 2009? hunt set meeting when the problem arose before, commissioner Freeman made a call during the commission meeting and was able to secure hunter access. I believe that outfitter dollars (as Mike/Rembrandt mentions) were the driving force behind the pending closure then.

 

Checkerboard lands do a lot to help diminish public access.

[TLH]

Yep, a few bone heads shoot stuff up and the rancher closes off tons of public lands because the road goes through his private land.

 

But wait a minute... maybe the rancher is excercising his American free interprise rights. What? Yeah, there's lots of money to be made here. Isn't this some of the very best archery trophy antelope hunting ground in the world?

Even though we may be talking about large tracks of state (public) land, one guy can close it off because the road goes through his yard. When all this trophy antelope country is excluded from the public, the one guy can then allow anyone of his choosing to access the land.

Enter the big time guide. The big time guide solicites tag holders and finds clients that can pay thousands of dollars to hunt this publically managed, on public land, special trophy area that just became "private". Then the big time guide pays the rancher a big time access fee.

And all this can happen without 'Land Owner Tags' like other states do.

It's all about money, folks. Pure and simple.

 

Mike

 

BINGO!!!! We have a winner!

[CEI]

So, how do you stop it? Make landowner tags that are only valid for private ground only? How many acres would qualify someone for a permit? Would this led to ranches like Babbits & Diamond A being closed down to public access? Just some thoughts, what do you guys think... I know Ranches have petitioned for years to try & get landowner tags.

 

Yep, a few bone heads shoot stuff up and the rancher closes off tons of public lands because the road goes through his private land.

 

But wait a minute... maybe the rancher is excercising his American free interprise rights. What? Yeah, there's lots of money to be made here. Isn't this some of the very best archery trophy antelope hunting ground in the world?

Even though we may be talking about large tracks of state (public) land, one guy can close it off because the road goes through his yard. When all this trophy antelope country is excluded from the public, the one guy can then allow anyone of his choosing to access the land.

Enter the big time guide. The big time guide solicites tag holders and finds clients that can pay thousands of dollars to hunt this publically managed, on public land, special trophy area that just became "private". Then the big time guide pays the rancher a big time access fee.

And all this can happen without 'Land Owner Tags' like other states do.

It's all about money, folks. Pure and simple.

 

Mike

 

BINGO!!!! We have a winner!

[bonecollector]

I know a rancher who leaves his gates unlocked that go through his property to get to the public land. There are a few that ruin it for the rest of us. One year he had some hunters camp right next to his main corral and his main water source for his cattle. The Warden only told the hunters that the rancher wanted them to move their camp. No tickets issued for violating a law. They moved but trashed the place before they did. Its things like this that make the ranchers lock their gates. Not all ranchers are all about the money.

[ehunt]

I just listened to the commision meeting and it sounds like they are not going to issue any antelope tags for 19B this year! What a bummer, i'm glad i didnt apply for that unit!

[Red Rabbit]

After discussion of options, the commission voted 3-2 to reduce the number of antelope permits in 19B to ZERO for both the archery and general hunts. There should be a press release later today.

 

The first option was to run the draw as is with successful applicants having the option to not receive a permit and receive a refund and BP.

The second option was to run the draw with a reduced number of permits reflective of the possibility to not hunt Chino Grande.

The third option was to have 0 permits.

 

All options were said to have have negative impacts.

In the draw, a person's next hunt choice would move up with the removal of 19B hunt choices.

 

I understood the possible closure of Chino Grande to be due to development of solar energy.

[AZMThunter]

Ouch... I had hunt #2022 as my first choice.

 

My odds for an antelope tag cannot have improved.