Elk and Antelope Applicants

[SunDevil]

Bill Q - the other Bill referenced the survey.

[billrquimby]

Bill Q - the other Bill referenced the survey.

 

 

Ok, but I stand by what I said. :)

 

Bill Quimby

[SunDevil]

Bill Q - I agree with most of your post but even the guys who just want to go out with their friends and family get discouraged when there are hunters everywhere, when they can't find a campsite due to over crowding, they go years without having any success and then they get hit with price increases during tough economic times. There is a fine balance but I struggle in seeing how our current situation (and one that has been in place for the last few years) is the correct one. I am not generally one who believes in coincidences, so when numerous things all point to "where the money is" I am going to go with that instead of "oh it is just a coincidence."

[billrquimby]

Bill Q - I agree with most of your post but even the guys who just want to go out with their friends and family get discouraged when there are hunters everywhere, when they can't find a campsite due to over crowding, they go years without having any success and then they get hit with price increases during tough economic times. There is a fine balance but I struggle in seeing how our current situation (and one that has been in place for the last few years) is the correct one. I am not generally one who believes in coincidences, so when numerous things all point to "where the money is" I am going to go with that instead of "oh it is just a coincidence."

 

Sun Devil:

 

Last I heard, this huge state we call Arizona has only 40,000 plus/minus firearms deer hunters and they are not in the field at the same time. Red Rabbit is correct. If you want crowds, try Colorado ... or Pennsylvania or Michigan, or anywhere else where there are many hundreds of thousands of deer hunters.

 

When people have trouble finding a campsite, it's not always because there are too many hunters. It often means that the primitive roads that used to distribute people in that unit were closed by a land management agency or gates were locked by a land owner, forcing everyone to concentrate along the only roads still open.

 

Bill Quimby

[123456]

Well I guess I opened a huge can of worms here. It's great to see the discussion of why the number of hunters have declined. As far as the woods being too crowded, I rarely have any problems. Unfortunately, too many hunters do not want to leave the roads or a certain area. For instance, I used to hunt big bug mesa in 20a. There is always a bunch of deer in there and used to be less people. Since there was a huge increase in hunting pressure, I had to change my strategy. I now let everyone hunt on "top" and I hunt from the bottom up. In other words, if an area gets too much pressure for humans, it is often too much for animals. They will move to other places, usually further back in the wilderness. I am not saying there isn't animals where all the pressure is. My experience is only to adapt to your situation and think outside the truck. I agree that AZGFD has gone the wrong way with their quantity over quality for hunts. Unfortunately, the "average" hunter would rather go hunting more often, rather than have a great tag. Most guys are tickled to death just to harvest the animal listed on their tag. An antlered bull hunt, just means you have to get one with an Antler. Anything above that is an added bonus. At any rate, my rambling must stop and I am just glad I have a better chance at drawing a tag this year.

P.S. During that above mentioned hunter safety class, I had the instructor tell us that you were only able to shoot a bow from a treestand in ARizona. I have never heard that, and do not believe it true. I do not rifle hunt much anyway, but just can not fathom a law like that. anyone know for sure that this is law?

[sly]

It's simple people just don't have the money

[Millhouse]

I agree it is simple economics. In our family, we normally have 7 of use put in for elk. This year, only 3 could afford it. The others will still go out IF we draw, but that doesn't show up in any of the 'data' even though they would still be out there with us and support hunting.

[SunDevil]

Bill Q - I agree with most of your post but even the guys who just want to go out with their friends and family get discouraged when there are hunters everywhere, when they can't find a campsite due to over crowding, they go years without having any success and then they get hit with price increases during tough economic times. There is a fine balance but I struggle in seeing how our current situation (and one that has been in place for the last few years) is the correct one. I am not generally one who believes in coincidences, so when numerous things all point to "where the money is" I am going to go with that instead of "oh it is just a coincidence."

 

Sun Devil:

 

Last I heard, this huge state we call Arizona has only 40,000 plus/minus firearms deer hunters and they are not in the field at the same time. Red Rabbit is correct. If you want crowds, try Colorado ... or Pennsylvania or Michigan, or anywhere else where there are many hundreds of thousands of deer hunters.

 

When people have trouble finding a campsite, it's not always because there are too many hunters. It often means that the primitive roads that used to distribute people in that unit were closed by a land management agency or gates were locked by a land owner, forcing everyone to concentrate along the only roads still open.

 

Bill Quimby

 

holy cow bill - it is all relative. all I know is what I see and hear. I see a lot of other hunters, I see a lot of occupied campsites, I see other people going out the weekend before their hunt to set up camp and secure a campsite. I hear lots of other people complain about the amount of other hunters in the field during hunts, the decrease in quality of game, the increasing difficulty to harvest an animal due to all the other pressure, the increases in fees, etc, etc. I am just sharing with others, what others share with me and what I observe.

[wardsoutfitters]

Here is the problem, No access . All the hunters are forced to hunt in the areas where there is access, The greedy land owners that block of 100;s of thousands of acres with a tiny piece of deeded land is bull shoot. This makes everyone pile into small areas to hunt , the areas get over harvested and yet Game and Fish still continues to survay lands we cant even hunt .

[billrquimby]

Here is the problem, No access . All the hunters are forced to hunt in the areas where there is access, The greedy land owners that block of 100;s of thousands of acres with a tiny piece of deeded land is bull shoot. This makes everyone pile into small areas to hunt , the areas get over harvested and yet Game and Fish still continues to survay lands we cant even hunt .

 

 

As they say in certain circles, you done broke da code. But don't blame a wildlife agency for "surveying lands we can't hunt." Hunters need to work for more access, even if it means finding sources of funds to pay landowners to open their gates.

 

Bill Quimby

[Santana Outdoors]

The way we have progressed into "Trophy hunters" has hurt all this too. Rarely do you see families out there together during a hunt. When I was a kid, when my dad hunted, all of us were in camp or hunting. It was also used as a vacation. We would go up for a whole week together for archery deer. Some of the best times of my life.

 

As far as the application drop off. Economy hurts it, but so did the fact that you can't apply online and put it on your credit card. The online app process also made it real easy for the anti hunters to apply and get tags and not use them. A few years back when you could apply online there was a big push for them to get more tags. I haven't heard much about this today, have you?

 

It is what it is, be positive and make it an adventure no matter what you do. Good luck to everyone on your tags.

[youngbuck]

I have to agree access is a big part. Roads through the hills are getting closed and highways are growing and becoming easier to travel to those fewer dirt roads.

[azslim]

123456 - bs on the shoot archery only from treestand comment, guy has no clue what he is talking about

[billrquimby]

"The way we have progressed into "Trophy hunters" has hurt all this too."

 

Exactly.

 

Bill Quimby

[wardsoutfitters]

How has trophy hunting hurt anyone? A trophy to me is differant than a trophy to you. Trophy hunting has nothing to do with the decline of hunters.