Elk and Antelope Applicants

[123456]

Just thought I would brighten a few people's day. I took hunter safety class yesterday, ( to get that all so important bonus point.) and the instructor told us some great info. He told the class, that this year there was almost a 20% drop off of applications turned in. This was in comparison to last year, and last year was down from the year before. What this means is that we all have a much better chance of getting drawn and that the economy sux.

[Couzer]

Dane i should of put in for a trophy hunt! Oh well!

[coues krazy]

I hope it doesnt mean hunting is declining as a whole. I know several people that have quit hunting all together. Seems people are finding other things to do with there time. I personally would be a lost soul if I couldnt hunt.

[DUG]

My wife is going to spit venom if she draws that antelope tag with gas at 4 or 5 bucks a gallon. It's going to cost me 120 bucks per scouting trip just in gas.

[billrquimby]

I hope it doesnt mean hunting is declining as a whole. I know several people that have quit hunting all together. Seems people are finding other things to do with there time. I personally would be a lost soul if I couldnt hunt.

 

 

Hunting in America has been declining as a "whole" since about 1970. In recent years, the decline has become exponentially more rapid.

 

Bill Quimby

[BeardownAZ]

I hope it doesnt mean hunting is declining as a whole. I know several people that have quit hunting all together. Seems people are finding other things to do with there time. I personally would be a lost soul if I couldnt hunt.

 

 

Hunting in America has been declining as a "whole" since about 1970. In recent years, the decline has become exponentially more rapid.

 

Bill Quimby

 

Wow. I know of some people who are diehards or so I thought, that only applied for bonus points this year. Good for our draw odds but bad for revenue. When times get tough its hard to justify spending money on hunting like anything else. $5 dollar gas would mean no scouting trips but maybe one for me .

[Browning'sCustomMeat]

I am glad to say that here in Payson there are 70+ new youth getting into hunting. The Hunters Ed class is unbelievable!! We have a "New Generation" coming up! Woooo Haaaaaa!

[TwoGuns]

I think the game and fish department has created a problem, or situation maybe is a better term, that is turning some hunters off. I have friends that no longer have any desire to go hunting after having a bad experience fighting the incredible crowd that exists in the woods each fall. If you apply for a good rifle bull tag, in lets say unit 6A, you will be surrounded by 900 other bull tag holders. This year a unit 6a archery bull tag holder will see that number cut down to only 595. To me, those numbers are way too high. It may take a person 10 years to draw a bull tag, and then their hunt is not good because everywhere they go they run into other hunters.

 

Maybe I am wrong, but it seems the game department has gone way overboard trading quantity for quality, and that is driving some people away. Of course on the flipside, the more tags they give out, the more frequently a hunter gets to go.

 

Darren

[billrquimby]

I think the game and fish department has created a problem, or situation maybe is a better term, that is turning some hunters off. I have friends that no longer have any desire to go hunting after having a bad experience fighting the incredible crowd that exists in the woods each fall. If you apply for a good rifle bull tag, in lets say unit 6A, you will be surrounded by 900 other bull tag holders. This year a unit 6a archery bull tag holder will see that number cut down to only 595. To me, those numbers are way too high. It may take a person 10 years to draw a bull tag, and then their hunt is not good because everywhere they go they run into other hunters.

 

Maybe I am wrong, but it seems the game department has gone way overboard trading quantity for quality, and that is driving some people away. Of course on the flipside, the more tags they give out, the more frequently a hunter gets to go.

 

Darren

 

Darren:

 

Sorry, but crowded conditions would rank near the bottom of a list of the reasons why hunting in America is declining. Costs of licenses and equipment, inability to draw permits, complicated regulations, locked gates, a lack of mentors, too many other things to do, and lots other reasons would rank higher.

 

In Arizona, we have gone from more than 100,000 deer hunters in 1970 to much fewer than half that number. If PETA or HSUS were to blame for this, we would be screaming bloody murder, but the reason has more to do with conservative wildlife management, loss of access to hunting areas, and "trophy" hunters who resist changes that allow more people to participate.

 

Please don't blame our state's increase in human population or increased development for the decline, although it is a factor in many other states. Only 19% of Arizona is privately owned, and it is this land that is being developed and populated. The remaining 81% of the state is owned by state, federal and tribal governments, and much of it is open to hunting. Even more of it would be hunted if we could get locks off gates.

 

Unfortunately, bureaucracies -- including wildlife agencies -- will do anything to survive, including abandoning their historic constituencies if that is what it takes.

 

If the number of hunters continues to drop across this country, which I believe it will, sooner or later game departments will seek out other groups for revenue and support. It won't happen in the time I have left, but I predict whether or not hunting continues eventually will be a ballot issue. Hunters many not lose everything in the first few rounds, but eventually we will.

 

Although this may not happen in the next twenty to thirty years or so, the days of hunting as you know it are numbered.

 

A thread on 24hourcampfire.com provides a hint of what we may see here as agency costs rise and hunters' dollars continue to decline. Our national ads probably will be for recruiting more javelina hunters, and not elk, though. AZGFD already has radio ads to promote small game hunting.

 

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/4941886/all/Colorado_puts_out_the_call_for

 

Bill Quimby

[azslim]

It used to be that about 10% of the population hunted and 10% was adamantly opposed to hunting. Nowadays it is only about 7-8% that hunts and the anti crowd is growing. And concerning tag numbers, when G&F did their surveys a few years ago the overwhelming response was people wanted quantity over quality, meaning more tags so they could get in the field, the end result is the situation we find ourselves in today. There is no action G&F can take that would make everyone happy, so for now let the quantity folks hit the field in droves and let the quality crowd hunt smarter (and farther from roads) and the middle ground folks will be happy with a campfire under the stars and good friends to bs with around the fire.

[.270]

the azgfd ceased to be a wildlife management agency and became an accouting firm many years ago. they manage wildlife for $$, not for wildlife conservation. what bill says here is true. kids aren't being introduced to the outdoors in ways that get and keep them interested in it. i think the "video game" society has a lot to do with it. it's a lot easier to live in a make believe world and never leave the couch. not just for kids either. too many folks just don't go outside. i know one thing that i've noticed is that you never seem to have a "positive" experience with azgfd officers. they always start the 20 questions routine and act like you've done something wrong and they just need to figure out what it was. a young lady i know shot a bull on the late hunt in u1 last season. a day or so after she got it a couple wardens were in their camp and accused her of tagging an elk someone else shot. with no real reason to even think it. they finally left, but i kinda doubt she'll go hunting again. it was her first hunt for anything. she was real excited about getting a bull. but after that she was really pessimistic about the whole thing. i can't remember the last time i had what i would call a positive experience with a game warden or forest ranger. even if you're just sitting in camp not doing anything in particular, it seems like they look at everyone like you're a criminal that hasn't been caught yet. i doubt that this is the main reason for the drop in outdoor participation, but it is one thing that the azgfd and usfs have some control over that they could do a lot better job on. congratulate someone for a change instead of going to the 20 question deal. there are a lotta reasons on all sides that hunting and angling are declining and all sides have some blame, or credit, if you're an anti. some are big reasons, some are little reasons, but they all add up. cleaning up a bunch of the little reasons would be pretty easy to do and would be a big help. Lark.

[Red Rabbit]

Darren,

For perspective, a general bull hunt in Colorado, or general deer hunt in Utah, will show how relatively uncrowded the AZ elk hunts are. I think that we all would like to have the whole woods to ourselves to hunt, so to speak. Rather than stop hunting, better would be to scout for an area with fewer hunters. As one person's tagline says "I find that if I go the extra mile, it is rarely crowded"

 

To tag on to what Bill said, I think another reason for the decline of hunters is the urbanization of America. The lifestyles of rural America are fading.

 

123456,

Glad you took the hunter ed class. Besides a bonus point, you undoubtedly received other benefits. Good luck in the next draw.

 

Doug~RR

[SunDevil]

another way to avoid the crowds is to save your vacation time and hunt during the week. not very many other hunters out there tues - thurs. I tagged out last oct on a Wed. did not see another hunter in the spot we were at on either tues, wed or thurs but we were an hour in during the middle of the week.

 

bill - I think most would agree that survey questions can be worded in a certain way to solicit a desired response. I am guessing the dept obtained the results from their survey a few years ago that they were looking for.

[Outdoor Writer]

I wrote the following more than 20 years ago as one of my LAST SHOT columns for AZ Hunter and Angler. Some of the stats would obviously differ now, likely leaning toward the worse side.

 

WE'RE LOSIN' 'EM

 

It's no big secret the number of hunters on a national level has declined over the last two decades. With the growth of many small cities into larger cities, a less rural population has resulted. This alone has cut hunter numbers. The seemingly parallel decline occurring in Arizona -- once considered to have a very "rural" population -- is even more distressing.

 

Unquestionably, the cities here have also grown rapidly. In the Phoenix metro area alone, the population has jumped from 900,000 in 1965 to 2.3 million now. The state's overall people count has increased proportionally, too. Yet, despite the huge influx of people into Arizona, the sales of hunting licenses have fallen substantially from historic highs.

 

At a recent Arizona Game and Fish Commission meeting, Education Branch Chief Kerry Baldwin explained the history of license sales. He cited a steady growth in license sales from World War II into the 1970s. The gas crisis of the 1970s signaled the peak of license sales growth relative to the changing population across the country. The key years appear to be 1970-71, when most of Arizona's big-game hunts went to a permit system.

 

Baldwin also pointed to the large drop in youngsters between 10 and 20 years old now getting into hunting. Overall only 5.6 percent of Arizona's residents bought licenses in 1987 compared to 9 percent of the total population in 1967. The number of youths buying licenses declined even worse.

 

Many factors have played a part in the overall decline. A poor economy, adverse weather and high gas prices have had noticeable but short-term effects over the years. Declines in specific game populations and regulation changes like the permit system played key roles, as well.

 

More discouraging, though, are the long-term variables -- the ones that will carry over for the coming decades and possibly predict the future of hunting in this country.

 

First, we have an aging population. This especially shows among licensed hunters because of the lower recruitment of youngsters. As more hunters get older and quit hunting altogether, fewer people will take their place in the outdoors.

 

Earlier, I mentioned the growth of cities. With this upsurge in a more urban population, fewer and fewer youngsters get to experience the outdoors on a firsthand basis. Instead, they might watch the Discovery or Disney channel to learn about wildlife and the outdoors. By the time they become adults, their only experiences with live animals other than a domestic pet might come from a zoo.

 

Lifestyles have also changed drastically in the last 30 years. In many families both parents MUST work just to pay the bills. Thus, they have little free time for hunting. Instead, the adults take up golf, tennis, bowling or other pastime -- ones they can enjoy close to home and over a few hours. To them, finding time to play 18 holes is a lot easier than finding a few days to hunt deer. These people spend a large part of their expendable income closer to home, too.

 

No doubt the current trend in the family makeup accounts for at least some of the lack of recruitment among youths, and it's less than encouraging:

 

 

* 30 percent of all children live in a one-parent family;

 

* 50 percent of all children will live with one parent by age 18;

 

* 90 percent of all single-parent families have a woman as the that parent;

 

* 10 percent of the population is comprised of 15-19 year olds;

 

* 93 percent of the hunters in Arizona are males.

 

 

Most juvenile hunters come from homes where hunting and fishing have been a traditional part of the adult family member's lifestyle, according to Baldwin. If juveniles do not participate in hunting or fishing by the time they hit 18 years old, they likely never will. The current surveys support this; 85 percent of current hunting license buyers started before they reached 18 years of age.

 

Many of my neighbors show just how true these statistics are. At least three families on my block consist of a divorced mother and one or more children. One lives across the street. The mother has been alone for nearly 12 years and somehow has made do on her earnings from two low paying jobs. She was determined to keep herself and three kids off the welfare roles.

 

When I first talked to the oldest boy nearly 10 years ago, James was 11. I had been unpacking my truck after a deer hunt, and James was cutting his front lawn. When he saw me unload the caped skull of a buck, he shut down the lawn mower and walked across the street just to visit. During our conversation, I found out he had never hunted and fished only at the park about a mile away. He told me his mother simply never had time to take him. From what I already knew, she probably didn't have the money to spend on even the most minimal equipment either.

 

Two weeks after the deer hunt, I invited James into my house to see my collection of trophy mounts. They somewhat awed him at first. During the next few months, though, he became a regular visitor. He always enjoyed talking about my trips and looking at the photos from the successful ones.

 

All my kids are long gone, and I always have these leftover fishing rods, reels, lures, line, baseball hats and other sundry goodies, courtesy of the manufacturers. Plus, my closet contains at least 15 firearms, and I can only use one at a time.

 

So about five years ago I decided to "adopt" James. During one of his visits, I asked if he thought his mother would let him hunt. He said he didn't know but he would ask.

 

A day later, I heard a loud knock. When I opened door, James was standing there with a very big smile on his face.

 

"She said I can."

 

"She said you can what?" I asked.

 

"I can go hunting with you."

 

"Aha, now I understand. Good. But first things first. There's a thing or two we need to get done. I want you to take a hunter education course. Just tell your mom I'll take care of the registration fee and get you to classes."

 

The next day I called the game department and got the dates for the next hunter ed class in our neighborhood. James and I attended together, and he graduated with flying colors. A week later, I took him out to the desert and let him shoot some clay birds with my 20 gauge shotgun. We made two more forays to the desert before I felt he had progressed enough to shoot at a live bird without becoming discouraged over missing. On the way home from that third trip, I stopped at a license dealer and bought James his first hunting and fishing license. The next weekend James killed a limit of doves. A week later, we went fishing at Lake Pleasant.

 

He was hooked.

 

James is now 20 and attending an out-of-town college on an academic scholarship and majoring in biology. He wants to be a wildlife researcher. He finds little time for hunting and fishing now but still manages to stop by my house and reminisce whenever he comes home to see his mom. Naturally, his mother is proud of James' scholastic accomplishments -- and deservedly so.

 

I have no doubt the youngster will get back to hunting and fishing once he graduates. Before he left for school last August, he told me he would be home for the Thanksgiving holidays and would like to do a little quail hunting with me and my German shorthair if I have the time.

 

Of course, I made the time. If hunting is to survive, we need all the help we can get. James and youngsters like him represent the best help around.

 

----- 30 -----

[billrquimby]

another way to avoid the crowds is to save your vacation time and hunt during the week. not very many other hunters out there tues - thurs. I tagged out last oct on a Wed. did not see another hunter in the spot we were at on either tues, wed or thurs but we were an hour in during the middle of the week.

 

bill - I think most would agree that survey questions can be worded in a certain way to solicit a desired response. I am guessing the dept obtained the results from their survey a few years ago that they were looking for.

 

I didn't mention that survey because I know it is a sore point on this forum, but its results did not surprise me because I believe they were accurate. The vast majority of hunters do not join groups or post in hunting forums, nor do they hunt for "trophies." To them, "quality" means the ability to go out every year with friends or family, and they are happy with taking a forked-horned yearling every couple of years. These are the people we need if hunting is to survive, and we are losing more of them every year.

 

You are correct about hunting in mid-week to avoid crowds.

 

Bill Quimby