Flagstaff Support

[Browning'sCustomMeat]

I had a friend email me this morning. Unfortunately I can not attend this meeting. But all those who are in the Flag area try your best to make it.

 

 

just FYI, l hope this shooting range does not get shot down due to lack of shooter/hunter interest. Please show up and show your support or at least foward this info on to someone who might. Numbers count at these type of meetings and if you want to have somewhere designated for shooting and educational type of events please attend.

 

 

 

 

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Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 13:25:10 -0700

 

 

I just got this reminder from Bill McLean

 

"I know you all are getting tired of hearing from me on this, but I'm going to keep reminding you to BE THERE ON TUESDAY AT 5:30pm. The Friends of Walnut Canyon, Friends of Flagstaff's Future and Walnut Canyon Monument folks showed up at the G&F Commission Meeting Friday and previewed their show. We need to outnumber them at the City Council. Their message is based on misinformation, lack of information and down right misstatements. This will be addressed by us on Tuesday. We also need people to sign in supporting Foster Ranch so we show our commitment to this range."

 

I was at the G&F Commission meeting on Friday. Turn out from shooters and hunters was dismal. If we don’t show up in significant numbers on Tuesday evening, I’m guessing the city will officially oppose this range.

 

Both Bill McLean and Mike Golightly spoke at this meeting. Neither are Commissioners any longer. They have both carried this project long past their retirement from the Commission. They deserve our thanks so the next time you see either of them, please be gracious enough to show your appreciation.

 

You and all your hunting and shooting pals need to be at the city council meeting on Tuesday, January 18th at 5:30PM!

 

 

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Forward this to every hunter and shooter you know - NOW ! (Do not assume they already got a copy!)

 

If this was forwarded to you, send an e-mail to billgow@gmail.com to be added to future distributions.

 

 

Bill Gow

LendersDirect

5200 E Cortland Blvd., E120

Flagstaff, AZ 86004

928-527-7974 - office

928-522-3255 - mobile

bgow@elendersdirect.com - work

billgow@gmail.com - home

 

 

[CouesWhitetail]

 

 

I am opposed to this shooting range and I hope each of you are too...

 

 

Care to share your thoughts on why you oppose this?

[lucky2hunt]

I am opposed to this shooting range and I hope each of you are too...

 

 

Care to share your thoughts on why you oppose this?

+1 - Please do elaborate...

I will be at the meeting on Tues. in support of this range. Thanks for the reminder!

[russd]

i agree with bryce. its just the wrong area for alot of people to frequent. i don't think its a good place for long range shooting either.

[russd]

[Rembrant]

Went to the public forum in Flagstaff last night. Interesting.

The Game Dept was invited to come and share about the proposed range, because there is public concern of a shooting range near Flagstaff and especially near Walnut Canyon National Monument.

The presentation was good. The Game Guy gave a history of the Dept's efforts to bring a shooting range to the Flagstaff area; 15 years, 50 locations considered, and the fall out at a handfull of locations. After that there was an extensive list of all the public notices about the proposed site: articles in various publications, radio and tv from around the state. Curious.

Then there was the talk about access, what the range could look like (big or small), other recreation possibilities, like camping. And of course explanation as to why this particular location. There was an audio specialist there that explained the audio testing that was done and the results thereof. More talk about how to reduce the already low decibles even further with layout, burms etc.

When the City began their questioning, the the tone and intent became clear, and I then understood the long explanation from the Dept about the extensive public notices. The City Counsel wanted to know why they were not directly notified, and implied in their questioning that the Dept had pulled a fast one on the City of Flagstaff and Walnut Canyon. They wanted to know about sound. They asked if the range could be an indoor range. They asked if the Dept knows what effect the shooting will have on birds and other animals (the irony is killing me) and if studies have been done. The Dept stated that they have ample information on the subject that can be accessed. The City wanted to know what response the Dept has made, if any, to the letter the Hopi's sent to the city and various agencies expressing their concern about the site. (?)

At one point Mayor Pressler, in asking a question about sound, said she was walking in the canyon the day before and came upon a sign that read, "Migration does not mean abandonment." I know that she is a liberal and have always thought she was a bit strange. She paused and allowed for one of those moments like when somebody farts in church and everyone's mind strains at the question, "Did I just hear what I thought I heard?" Not sure what she meant, but after 24 hours I'm thinking she was implying that the ancient spirits could possi... naw, nope, I ain't gonna try and figure out was she meant. I don't want to know. But I can happily say that I didn't vote for her.

Most of the City's questioning centered around why they weren't notified about something this important.

Bryce Canyon you are correct about this range going to disrupt some beautiful country and great elk and muledeer habitat. This is another in the line of events that is chopping away at 5B north. But this is nothing compared to the land that the Hopi's aquired (will someone explain this Hopi land deal to me please?). And we can thank the friends of walnut canyon for the proposed extension of the monument.

I think I can answer some of your many questions, Bryce Canyon.

Why did they choose this property?

It's a great property that will serve the purpose. And it is PRIVATE PROPERTY that will not lay under the jurisdiction of the city, forest or monument.

Who benifitted from the sale of the property? The owner did. And we did.

Who was the property owner? I'm guessing an American citizen excersizing his free rights.

Who was the broker? Another guess - a realestate person making a living in a free enterprise system.

I don't believe everything on the internet either.

Bryce, with you living in Flagstaff you know that road won't be closed for six months.

Natural disaster? One way out? You got 'em there. Good point.

Why not Two Guns? You know of available private property there? Or were you thinking of asking the Hopi's?

Raymond Ranch? Too far. Most people will continue to shoot weapons 'wildcat' style instead. This was part of the G&F study.

Luepp Road? Good idea. I don't know why. Maybe the private propery issue again.

The main argument at the forum was sound. If it was really about sound, why isn't the city mitigating with the airport in behalf of the monument? (talk about sound, read that last sentence and see if it sounds funny.) Well it was just as funny last night. The city and canyon should be happy they have the Game Dept for neighbors. If I had bought that PRIVATE PROPERTY and wanted to put a shooting range on it, I would tell the city to go to the canyon and take a hike.

Nope it ain't all about sound. It's about opposing world views: those that shoot guns and hunt animals vs. those that don't like guns and think animals are more important than people.

 

Mike

[NRS]

Very well stated reply to the questions.

 

Thank You for the update.

[scoutpylot]

I was born and rasied in Flagstaff. I have enjoyed "dispursed shooting" ever since I can remember. I am very sceptical of this shooting range. My concerns mostly center around the distrust I have for all of the special interest groups who seek to destroy EVERYTHING I hold dear. I am afraid that I we have a shooting range, the whackos will pressure the spineless coconino national forest into closing all dispersed shooting areas. Their rationale will be that we have a designated place to shoot, any other places are not needed and moreover not safe. And in today's world we must be protected from ourselves at all costs.

 

I do not want to drive 45 minutes (or farther as suggested in the above post) to get to a place where I can pop off a few rounds. I certainly don't want to pay for the opportunity every time I want to shoot. If I wanted that life style, I would live down in the sticker patch with the rest of the world. I chose to live in a rural setting on purpose.

 

This is not to say that I wouldn't use a nice facility from time to time. I would enjoy shootng skeet, and would use the benches for primary sighting in my rifles. I think the benifits for law enforcement training will be positive. We might even get to enjoy some shoothing competitions. I just don't want this to become my only "choice".

 

The current proposed locationl is too far from town as it is. I would not drive to two guns, and certainly not to Raymond ranch. For that matter, let's just go to Holbrook and use their already existing range.

 

For the comments of the Flagstaff city council...............

 

1) There have been at least 5 ligitimate proposals for commercial indoor shooting ranges inside the city limits. EVERY one of them have been rejected by the Flagstaff city council for various reasons. The long and the short of it is that this city is anti-gun, anti-sportsmen, and anti- anything resembeling a conservative view point.

 

2) AZGFD did not need to discuss their plans for the land they purchased with the city council, as the land is not with in the incorperated boundaries of the city of Flagstaff. Therefore, the city is not at the table to discuss the shooting range. AZGFD already knows their position anyhow. This is just another example of the city council overstepping their bounds.

 

3) To the city council : Stop wasting taxpayer monies having meetings in public facilities that do not realate the the municipality that pay for those facilities.

 

Sorry for the rant, but I've had it with all forms of government up here in the north country.

[Rembrant]

Scoutpylot,

I agree with you about the City. Arogance.

And I had the same thought about the Forest Circus trying to ban wildcat shooting. They can close pits (have already), but I don't think they can enforce a no-shooting law on the forest.

 

Mike

[cw4192]

Once again it is political. tree huggers and animal right's people have an endless amount of money, hemp wearing flea bag hippies, and politicians (paid) to disrupt any government agency that wants and needs things. All for their beleifs. The excuse of a forest fire and getting out? How about allowing the proper agencies to do control burn's, thin the tree's burn undergrowth etc..that does not happen because the people mentioned above fight everything that has to do with protecting and preserving the forest. Look at California. Oregon, Washinton what happens now every time they get good rain? Mud slides because they would not allow thining the forest, shrubs and undergrowth. I guess that they know better than the people that went to college and paid thousands of dollars to learn about the eco system and make a living doing so.

[Browning'sCustomMeat]

Thanks for the update Mike.

I remember all the talks about the indoor range idea when I lived in Flag. That would be a splendid idea. I think the last building they were talking about was the old Kmart off of 4th.

Flagstaff needs a range wherever they put it. Doesn't have to be huge or take up a giant pisec of land. Here in Payson, the Jim Jones is relatively small but a top notch facility. 3 different ranges and an archery course. Its about 5miles outside of town.

I agree the Leupp Rd area would be a fantastic spot.

Hopefully everythig works out to where most will be happy.

Thanks again for the update.

[russd]

will this range keep people from shooting out at the cinders or padre hill? i really don't know, anyone? if so that would be great. those places just become dumps from the casings and broken bottles, cans boards, etc.

[fatfootdoc]

When I was getting done with residency I considered moving back to Flag as it was my hometown, went to elementary, junior high , high school and college there. After seeing how much it had changed since I was in Med school and residency we decided not to move back. A big part of that was I knew that when Bavasi was gone that the new mayor(no names for sure but I think it was Joe Donaldson but as I cant remember but he was uglier than the south end of a north bound dog) was very liberal and getting worse with the influx of So. Cal. and it was going down hill from there. From the "beautiful artwork" now found along 66 and Milton to the home prices we decided we just did not fit in flagstaff anymore. I scoped myself for the first time at the winona cinder pits, taught myself to shoot there after I realized I could not let my head be in contact with the scope when I pulled the trigger!! Anyway, looks my reasoning was good and I feel bad to see Flagstaff ruined by a bunch of garbage. Way to liberal for me now. I love to come visit, but always leave glad I dont live there anymore. ag

[coyotekid]

Im not sure if this has been posted elsewhere on here yet but I found this flier from the G&F. Looks like they are holding a info open house to discus further plans for the Northern Arizona Shooting complex. I know there is alot of controversy involved with this, I am not up to speed on all of it but I know that we NEED a safe and healthy place to practice our sport and heritage. Hope this gets under way and we can all enjoy it soon.

check out the link below and please feel free to pipe in if there is good reason to oppose this or if there are considerations we should all be lobbying for.

shooting range open house

 

Cheers,

sam

[joeeden]

When I was getting done with residency I considered moving back to Flag as it was my hometown, went to elementary, junior high , high school and college there. After seeing how much it had changed since I was in Med school and residency we decided not to move back. A big part of that was I knew that when Bavasi was gone that the new mayor(no names for sure but I think it was Joe Donaldson but as I cant remember but he was uglier than the south end of a north bound dog) was very liberal and getting worse with the influx of So. Cal. and it was going down hill from there. From the "beautiful artwork" now found along 66 and Milton to the home prices we decided we just did not fit in flagstaff anymore. I scoped myself for the first time at the winona cinder pits, taught myself to shoot there after I realized I could not let my head be in contact with the scope when I pulled the trigger!! <img src="http://forums.coueswhitetail.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="blink.gif" /> Anyway, looks my reasoning was good and I feel bad to see Flagstaff ruined by a bunch of garbage. Way to liberal for me now. I love to come visit, but always leave glad I dont live there anymore. ag

 

 

There are still plenty of us hunters in Flag Fatfootdoc. Hippies and hunters are all we have. While I agree the very far left agenda in our City government is a shame to say the least, it's pretty easy to co-exist with most everbody. There are a lot of like minded people to enjoy Flagstaff with! (this brought to you by the Flagstaff Chamber of commerce )