2011 Antelope (Hopi)Venting

[BeardownAZ]

Standman- You have a very good point. My question is, why do other states and tribes and such utilize this means to help make hunting more accessible to more people by not allowing the same people to get drawn over and over? They more or less do this with Bighorn sheep and Buffalo on a more extreme level.

[standman]

The problem I see is that you cant compare AZ to other states. States like Utah and Colorado have way more elk and deer than AZ. Colorado is on a straight preference point system where only the highest number of points get drawn. They have the animal and permit levels to allow a preference point system to work. If Az did that the high demand premium hunts would basically become a once in a lifetime hunt. There is not enough hunter turnover (low permit numbers) to allow that to work. A new person just starting to apply may never get a tag or it may take over 25 years to get one. That won't work. As for Utah, just ask someone who lives there how they like their system. They hate it and it seems to change every year. Once you draw a premium tag there, it is slim to impossibe to draw that tag again. The only Rez I have any dealings with is the Navajo and it isn't hard to draw a tag there. Honestly, I don't know what the answer is to improving the odds in AZ are. I don't see a way of doing it unless you start pricing people out. I don't want that and I am sure the majority of people don't want that to happen. The amount of tags in AZ will never increase enough to allow the demand to catch up, and demand is always going to go up (unless you start pricing a portion of demand out of the equation). Is the system we have good or bad, I don't know, I just don't see a better one that will work for AZ, unless you go like NM and just have a pure lottery with no bonus or preference points. That will never happen though. So I don't know. I just keep playing the system we have and keep studying and applying. I have drawn my share of good tags over the past 5 years so I can't complain to much. Until a better system is figured out all I can say is good luck. Now I just got to figure out how to get my sheep tag.

[TLH]

19B with 50 tags is kind of like 19A with 50 tags--there isn't enough public land on either of those units to let a hunter hunt. 19B lost another ranch this year to freedom of hunting--the Campbell ranch shut the gates and charged 1000,00 to hunt on that chunk of ground and believe me when i tell you that there isn't a buck worth a grand on that place. Then you have the K4 who will only allow you to hunt if you hire Chad Smith's crew to hunt on there (Chad is a good dude and i have no animosity toward him at all) and then i believe the Big Chino was right on the verge last year to shut down but the commission asked them to stay open and they did--problem is there were only two decent bucks on that ranch last year (decent i mean Boon and Crockett bucks)---so what happens now is the guys and gals who waited 15 to 20 years to draw a tag gets to shoot a year old buck if he or she wants to kill---sad deal when you think 19B was known for the monsters way back in the day.

 

19A--same thing. Bob Burris is the only rancher who does not charge you to hunt on his ranch--he is a very nice man that has been hunter friendly for years but he has made his ranch a by foot only hunt--can't blame him for that with the sue happy people we have in this world. Now you have a small portion to hunt in 19A and most of that really doesn't have a lot of antelope to hunt.

 

So all that said stay away from 19B and 19A unless you have a bunch of money to spend on access or guides.

[DesertBull]

The problem with putting a waiting period on successful applicants, say five years, is that there are so few permits and so many applicants that you are not really improving your odds by that much especially on early rifle bull and antelope hunts, and most good archery hunts. Example: unit 9 early rifle elk; 25 tags available and 3731 applicants put in for it. After 5 years you have only removed 125 applicants from the 3731, and usually every year more applicants apply. How much have you really gained? That is the problem with a waiting period in AZ, too many people applying for a very limited amount of tags, you won't improve your odds enough to make a difference. This is how I see it.

 

Brian

 

You're right, you have not removed a significant number of apps from the pool, but you do avoid the scenario of a guy/gal drawing 2 or more tags in short time span while some other guy/gal is holding 15+ bonus points.

 

[Coach]

My beef, and I could be wrong, is that AZ has not been effective at maximizing game populations for mule deer, and even more noticably, antelope. We have just as much prime habitat for these species as our neighboring states, but the populations in many prime areas remain surprisingly low. I like to visit Utah, Colorado and New Mexico and I'm always blown away that as soon as I cross into one of these states at the amount of game I see. The same terrain and vegetation that looks like a wasteland in AZ, looks like an antelope sanctuary in parts of NM, CO and UT. The same rolling grasslands and foothills in AZ that hold few, if any mule deer are littered with mule deer in other states.

 

I'm no biologist, but it seems we've somehow gotten behind the curve when it comes to bringing our game populations closer to carrying capacity than other states with the same - or very similar - habitat, forage and rainfall.

 

If we could somehow find a way to increase our deer and antelope populations in the areas that are clearly capable of growth, a big part of the supply/demand issue we are currently facing would take care of itself, or at least be way better than it currently is.

[BeardownAZ]

I believe the game and fish just flat out does not manage deer here. They are to preoccupied with elk and wolves. 900 tags in unit 27 for mule deer. Its sickening to go up there and see that, especially compared to what it once was. I asked a warden once why they dont shut certain areas down to let the population rebound and they said it wouldnt make a difference. What a crock! Yet it was done right across the border in NM and worked in same type of terain. Its money that matters nothing more.

[MattMan]

The problem with putting a waiting period on successful applicants, say five years, is that there are so few permits and so many applicants that you are not really improving your odds by that much especially on early rifle bull and antelope hunts, and most good archery hunts. Example: unit 9 early rifle elk; 25 tags available and 3731 applicants put in for it. After 5 years you have only removed 125 applicants from the 3731, and usually every year more applicants apply. How much have you really gained? That is the problem with a waiting period in AZ, too many people applying for a very limited amount of tags, you won't improve your odds enough to make a difference. This is how I see it.

 

Brian

 

+1

 

The bonus point system was developed to eliminate the wait period. Guys were getting drawn every 2 years and others never could.

 

A wait period is strictly punitive in nature, and does NOTHING to improve your odds if you're not one of the ones drawn... at least under the BP system you can build to max points and get a tag.

 

Guess what? EVERYONE wants trophy tags. That's why they are hard to draw. Deal with it or put in for less desirable tags and hunt more often. It's not rocket science.