It has been bugging me…

[.270]

fair chase as described by the b&c is updated and changed regularly. when the original bylaws were written there was no such thing as radios and other electrical devices and airplanes and helicopters and snow machines and all kindsa stuff, that are all against the fair chase rules of b&c now. that club does a pretty good job in updating things and changing with the times. but electronic stuff ain't against the law in most state laws. and there is still nothing in the b&c rules about what range you can or can't shoot at. and there are reasons it is that way. because they also don't want to alienate "any" group of hunters. when b&c and pope and young were started, nobody used scopes, had binoculars or spotting scopes, 4x4 pickups, compound bows, graphite arrows, razor broadheads, range finders, goretex. thinsulate, etc, and the list goes on. but all that stuff is ok with both clubs now. they change as the world does too. Lark.

[tjhunt2]

fair chase as described by the b&c is updated and changed regularly. when the original bylaws were written there was no such thing as radios and other electrical devices and airplanes and helicopters and snow machines and all kindsa stuff, that are all against the fair chase rules of b&c now. that club does a pretty good job in updating things and changing with the times. but electronic stuff ain't against the law in most state laws. and there is still nothing in the b&c rules about what range you can or can't shoot at. and there are reasons it is that way. because they also don't want to alienate "any" group of hunters. when b&c and pope and young were started, nobody used scopes, had binoculars or spotting scopes, 4x4 pickups, compound bows, graphite arrows, razor broadheads, range finders, goretex. thinsulate, etc, and the list goes on. but all that stuff is ok with both clubs now. they change as the world does too. Lark.

 

Thanks Lark for that infomation. Now, why didn't I think of that? You're absolutely right again!

 

TJ

[Guest Lobo]

So technology defines "fair chase" and pretty much if it's legal - it's fair chase. Hmm.

[.270]

nope. not at all. if you use radios or electronic calls to help you take game they won't be recognized by either b&c or p&y. p&y doesn't even allow electric arrow nocks or electric sights. in fact, if you use anything electric, p&y won't recognize it. the way i understand it, if you hunt bear or lion and the hounds have tracking or shocking collars, the trophy can't be entered. but all these things are legal in every state i know of. what i stated was that both groups have changed their rules from time to time, as technology improves and as the demands of sportsmen and conservation change. a few years ago if you used a bow with over 65% let off, p&y wouldn't recognize the trophy, but they changed and now allow any let off. they pretty much had to. try to find a bow with 65% or less let off now. personally, i have a real problem with both groups because i think the quest for records is detrimental to the sport in a lot of cases. but i do like the idea of recognizing the animal and like to know roughly what a trophy scores, because i'm a guy. and i do appreciate the original reasons for starting the clubs and like the idea of sportsmanship and fair chase and i like the inclusion of all sportsmen, no matter how they hunt or what they hunt with, as long as it's legal. Lark.

[Guest Lobo]

So how do cameras and bait fit in?

[.270]

don't know about cameras, but bait is fine with both groups. Lark.

[480 stu-ffer]

I don't believe I'd shoot much more than three hundred yards these days ... a few months after I got out of service I managed my first antelope at 746 paces (my paces measured real close to a yard in those days .. 50yr's ago) with peep sights . I spent most of the first and part of my second year while in service on the rifle range as a coach and butt NCO and I could call my shots back then, now days I can't even see 700yd's.

[WadeNAZ]

I understand and agree with what you are saying CnS, but I fear it will fall on deaf ears. The guys that fling lead when they have no business doing so just don't care and won't listen. That's why they do that stuff in the first place. I appreciate those that put in the time and know their limits, but the average guy is a flippin dum dum.

 

 

IMO the problem is that the hunters we are talking about are ones who think they are better than they really because they rely on or feel they have the technology and tools to make them that good. Me I am an average guy and an average hunter. But, I know it. I do not have the time nor the money to invest into what it takes to become proficient and confident enough shooting at long ranges (more than 400yds). So just to elaborate on coues snipers comment the average guy is not the dum dum it is the average guy or above average guy who thinks they are better than average.

 

This is a great post. thanks for sharing.

 

Know who you are and know your limits.

[HaYen]

My take is people need to know their limits. Sort of your comment on practice and how far one can shoot with confidence. But I also think its a matter of opinion. I think 500 yards is "LR". Other's may think thats mid-range. My limit is 500 yards, no way I can take an animal beyond that distance and only with a certain load.

 

JMHO

[billrquimby]

In southern Africa, many local hunters say it is unethical to hunt anything with anything (including bows) within 1/4 mile of water.

They get bent out of shape knowing that the outfitters who specialize in bowhunting will encourage foreigners to shoot from blinds at waterholes.

 

They abhor hunting leopards with hounds, but approve of baiting and shooting at night, even though it is more difficult and dangerous to use hounds. Many also disapprove of shooting females, including gemsbok, eland, and other animals, even though the females of those species have horns that often are longer than those on the males.

 

There are lots of North American hunters who believe hunting bears over bait is unethical, but using dogs is OK -- and vice versa.

 

Some people feel using dogs to hunt anything, including birds, is unethical. In some countries, it is legal to shoot from helicopters. Others allow an animal to be located from a helicopter, but the "hunter" must get out before shooting.

 

Some would say that everything that is illegal is also unethical, but that ignores the fact that laws vary from state to state and country to country.

 

Just because it is illegal to use bait to hunt bears in Arizona, is it unethical for a hunter to shoot a baited bear in eastern Canada's dense forest where it not only is legal but also is about the only way anyone hunts a black bear?

 

Or for that matter, is it unethical to shoot a deer pushed to you by a pack of hounds in a U.S. state where it is legal to hunt deer with dogs?

 

This leaves the question: just because it is legal, and everyone else is doing it, is it ethical? I don't know. Ethics and morality are impossible to quantify.

 

The closest I can come to an answer is to say that if a practice is approved by the majority of my peers, then it's ethical. If it is prohibited by law, it is illegal, but not always unethical.

 

Bill Quimby

[SteveKDC]

I saw a guy out hunting that took a shot at a deer at over 600 yds. I asked how long he had been shooting at those distances with that gun and he said he just got it about 3 weeks prior to the season. I didn't notice if the deer got hit but he told me later that he saw blood when he walked over to where the deer had been standing. No, he did not recover this one. What a waste. I don't think that he has been hunting for the past few years. Hopefully he is done hunting forever.

[youngbuck]

Man I missed out on some good stuff while I was I away. I'll have to agree with Lark (mostly his previos posts about his view on "ethics") and CnS. It took me a long time to "used" to my gun. It took my dad awhile too. We both practice shooting long distance stuff. . I have guys ask me how far some of my shots have been (non-hunters). I tell them and some ask me why dont I just shoot em from my house or get a laser guided rocket. Haters are gonna hate. I explain that I am usually looking for one particular animal and want the best chance to take that animal when the oppurtunity presents its self. People have said that LR hunting is the cheap and easy way out. I have put on more miles with my LR rig in my pack than with my old 25-06 or 243. I go after animals I would have let walk before. Bill brought up some good point about different points of view. I'm always interested in seeing how other cultures, or even regions of the US, do things and the reason behind it. I'm not familar with the traditions or "ethics" in Africa. It is interesting to read about, Bill.

[Non-Typical Solutions]

Interesting thread for sure and definitely something we all need to take into consideration.

 

It made me think of my youth hunting.

We didn't have optics.

We used open site 3030 0r .243 usually.

There was no pre season scouting.

Most of our shots were with the animal on the run. My very first deer was a 50 yard shot with my 3030, dear running broadside of me.

We didn't use salt or cameras.

One of us would work one ridge while the other would take another ridge, hoping to either jump something up, or push something to the other.

 

I can't make a long range shot, 200 yards is the best I could make and I ain't sneaky enough to get within 12 yards of anything.

 

I load my own loads and I shoot alot off the bench and out hunting rabbits. I think as a kid I did way more shooting than kids do these days. BB guns, .22s and that kind of stuff.

 

Some would say that we weren't hunting back then, just beating the bush, and to a certain extent they would be right......but man it was a blast and a rush and I don't recall losing anything that we shot at.

 

Great topic, but most of it really is just opinion and what we each get the most bang for our time and money. Some of us don't have much money so it doesn't really take much to give us a bang.

I always thought hunting was about the campfire, hanging out with friends and family, steaks and dutch oven cookin anyways.

[ThomC]

In my opinion. I think that long shots are taken by lazy shooters not hunters. Not much different than road hunters. It is not fair chase.

[308Nut]

In my opinion. I think that long shots are taken by lazy shooters not hunters. Not much different than road hunters. It is not fair chase.

 

 

So I guess if your talent was art work, then by drawing or painting pictures (doing what you're good at and enjoy) that would automatically make you gay?!