It has been bugging me…

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

I have a concern, a problem, worry about us as hunters… We are too concerned with numbers and the end result of winning… and it is clouding our judgment as well as our moral & ethical standards. I’ll open up a can of worms here, and there are several issues I’d love to address, but for now, I am going to focus in one place… Shooting.

Equipment, knowledge, practice, and ability can extend the range of a hunter from the once standard 300 yards and in… to distances pushing a ½ mile or more… There are many pieces of country where closing the distance does not provide any opportunity to harvest the animal. For this reason the use of a well executed long range shot can make areas that were previously un-hunt able… a possibility, providing the conditions are right (perfect).

Here is where we become our own worst enemy… We read about it, we see the success, we see the guys on the next ridge doing it… But not all of us have invested, tested, practiced, or even laid the ground work to put long range hunting into practical field application.

I myself have a put quite a bit of time into LR shooting (but not as much as I’d like) over the last few years. I have a gun that I am very confident in at and around 600 yards. Since I invested my time and money into this gun (a 300 wby mag) we have had 17 out 17 animals recovered at ranges between 220 and 600 yards. We have enjoyed many one shot kills… and a couple that required a little more work. I however, will honestly argue that I have seen far worse marksmanship at less than 300 yards by other hunters, than any hunting story involving my LR rifle… I do harbor guilt for making long range hunting seem a common place or cavalier, even though we have never taken a shot over 650 yds. But, I built my gun for those times when you can’t get any closer, yet we shoot over 50% of the critters we take at under 400 yds. I also own a backup 300 wby mag that I consider to be a 400 yd and closer gun… we do not use it for anything but sub-400 yard hunting situations. It is my responsibility to be not only objective of my equipment and the hunting situation, but also who is pulling the trigger. I am seeing less and less objectivity, while I see more and more willingness to get lead in the air….

This year I heard more shots per elk harvested, than I ever have on an elk hunt. We witnessed over a Box of shells thrown at a spike at probably close to a ½ mile… they finally hit it after spraying lead all over a 40 yd circle. I witnessed a guide (for a VERY well known Outfitter on this forum and around the western deer world) let his client borrow his LR rifle and sling lead (3 shots) at just over 800 yds… then walk away saying they missed. I bet I’ll find a 6x6 elk head within 75 yds of where they were shooting in the spring while I horn hunt in there. The “whack” was pretty distinctive on the second shot from where I stood and the elk acted hit for the next 30 minutes while standing “ground hitched” then taking a couple labored steps into the brush and gone from site. No, they did not walk up in there and look for sign (to my knowledge), they packed their gear and left. To their defense I did not hike there to look for their bull either, so I could be mistaken about the hit but not about the circumstances. I know of a guy who took 17 shots at his Big bull before it was a done deal. I watched a Giant bull get whacked using 5-6 shots… many smaller bulls 2-5 shots… heard of many losses including an estimated 390 type bull… and I watched a gentleman miss 2 out of 3 at 231 yds with a rock rest! Does this sound bad??? Well it makes us ALL LOOK BAD! Collectively we are our own worst enemy!! I have an "aquaintance" ("friend" was the wrong word since I know several familys with mulitple tags and taking long shots) that filled 3 out of 3 tags (no losses) all over 400 yd shots for his daughters… all “hold over” shots… This is just as unethical as letting client (or anyone) take an unrehearsed shot at anything alive a ½ mile down range! I have yet to see anyone in any of the situations listed above holding a wind meter or a ballistic calculator and venture to guess that 90% of them don’t even know the BC of the bullet they are shooting. On the other hand, kudos to all who were successful in one shot kills at any range 22-1000 yards…. I know for every poor example I just listed there are several Awesome stories… For example: Kristy Ulmer of Chasin’ a Dream Outfitters shot a bull (330” broken, 345+ if not broke) in a “circus” late hunt that took 2 stalks and 10 hours to close the deal with a single shot at 170 yards (using a gun that could have taken the bull down ethically at 600yds. Congrats to Kristy and Jeremy on a Awesome job!). But, the fact remains we are choking ourselves to death by letting our desire to win, cover up what we know is right or wrong… shame on us… all of us…

I am all for harvesting the best game we can find regardless where it may hide. To me that can and does include the need to shoot beyond 400 yards at times, but it has to be done with measure. Hunting conditions, equipment, and ability must all be at an A+ rating to make a long shot…. Keep in mind the margin of error when you shoot at 800 yds is ½ what it is at 400 yds. To me shooting past 300 yards requires a commitment and requires more thought and calculation with each 100 yds beyond that. What posses us to think we have the right to send that bullet up on a Wing and a Prayer??? Please encourage all the hunters that you know to weigh their actions and put a higher regard for these animals we hunt than on winning. We have to stop ambushing ourselves and start protecting the tradition for the future generations. The responsiblity is ours... yours and mine to step it up.

 

I know that the waters will soon be muddied by everything from blaming the AZGF for putting too many hunters in the woods (however true), to Guides, Outfitters, Trophy hunters vs meat hunters, to attacking me or each other…. But the fact remains we have a choice and we need to choose better and I am not above including myself in the blame.

 

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

[Chef]

Enter bowhunting into your arguement and we'll be here all day.

[scoutm]

+1 Well said!!

 

I know there have been a couple of videos posted of 500 yard + shots that first didn't need to be that far if a little effort to put on a stalk was given and second where multiple shots were needed to kill the animal. Does us no good when we post videos of questionable shots that show us wounding the animals followed by multiple follow up shots to finish the job the first shot should have and would have finished if an effort to get closer was made.

 

I've been guilty of taking shots I shouldn't have and was fortunate to have had clean misses. I learned my leason from those experiences and I won't be repeating those bad choices.

 

Great topic - thanks for posting.

[bowhuntaz1]

Thank you for the topic and being honest. I hope everyone stops and reflects on their own past hunts. Hopefully everyone will keep their comments clean(no finger pointing)

James T.

[Coues Sniper]

I understand and agree with what you are saying CnS, but I fear it will fall on deaf ears. The guys that fling lead when they have no business doing so just don't care and won't listen. That's why they do that stuff in the first place. I appreciate those that put in the time and know their limits, but the average guy is a flippin dum dum.

 

And by the way, the margin for error at 800 isn't half of that at 400; it's much less IMO .

[rclouse79]

If everyone were like me, there would be no more questionable shots to worry about. It is tough to shoot at stuff you can't find. Good post for those who are better hunters than I am.

[TontoCreeker]

Gino,

 

I normally sit in the shadows of this forum and just browse around but after this deer and elk seasons I have started to post the same comments you have just posted and deleted them because I didnt think it would make a difference. I agree 150% with you. To be blunt it sickens me to see and read about the multiple long range shots taken by those who have no business doing so. Look things happen some times when executing these shots which result in a less than vital hit or a clean miss but it seems that now days it is more the rule than the exception. More and more peolple are buying guns that they proudly say can accurately shoot out to 600 plus. Ya but CAN YOU? Me and my hunting buddy's have such guns and do practice long long ranges. But we each no what our effective range is, not on a bench in perfect weather but in real field conditions and in different shooting positions. I understand the excitement of having a big bull or buck out there daring you to lob some lead, instead of taking 5 to 10 bad shots take the time and close the distance 100 or more yards to increase your odds. If you cant come up with a plan for the next day. We owe it to the animals, each other, and the sport we love.

[TAM]

PRACTICE!!!

 

 

[Red Rabbit]

Candid and well said thoughts about irrresponsible shooting, Gino. The same could be said for archers (seemingly more for antelope) and even those who take closer rifle shots at running game. Perhaps you read on your favorite forum, MM, about the young girl who took 450? yard shots at a running muley and hit the buck the second time in head.

[firstcoueswas80]

The best way to practice, IMHO is to NOT shoot paper other then to sight in the scope. I shoot paper once a year, other than developing loads.

 

When I sight in my rifle (I zero at 200 yards) it is on paper, normally with a chrono. After that, I do not go to the range again. I find the best practice and test is shooting rocks at what ever distance. That way, I shoot prone with a bipod and pack so it is a more field like shooting position yet stable enough to truely test the gun. Pick out a distinct rock and call the shot. Then shoot a 3 shot group and go measure how far from dead center you are, adjust your turret and do it again.

 

I also plug my info to a ballistics calculator before I go out and make adjustments from there.

 

As to the wind... I do not use a meter. If the wind is bending the plants or grass, its too much to shoot over 400 yards. If I think the bullet is going to move more than I am comfortable with, I dont take the shot. (I usually thikn 10 MPH is too much to accurately judge at over 400 yards)

[Outdoor Writer]

Oh such slippery slopes...and I know I'll hate myself in the morning, but...

 

To quote a well-known unnamed philosopher, "if it's legal, it's ethical."

[daryl_s]

Let me start by saying that I have taken shots that I shouldn't have. I believe I have learned from those experiences. A lot of what I have learned has come from reading about shooting, hunting, and other techniques from a lot of you here on this site. When I started hunting I didn't know what I was doing and it was just lack of experience. I have learned a ton from you guys and what I have learned I have tried to apply to my hunting trips since I joined this site 5 or 6 years ago. I am a much better and much more prepared hunter now because of it. I think most people, not all, on this forum will agree with you and are responsible hunters. The only thing about a large % of these hunters that you are talking about is that they will never see or hear what you said here.

[azslim]

It's not just guns. I have run into people in the woods with borrowed bows, brand new equipment that their "Buddy" put together for them, 2 to 3 days practice, I could go on. Lots of folks like to hunt but not all of them put in the practice to be even marginally proficient with their equipment. What are you going to do but shake your head and mumble as you walk away - just as well try to teach your dog to play the piano as waste breath trying to teach respect and ethics to them.

[Ernesto C]

I agree with you CnS. A good, a true hunter always check, looks and makes sure if the shot was a hit or not, ALWAYS!

 

I do not agree on borrowing a bow or rifle for the hunt. A true hunter must know his gun but...like Tony said.....is not illegal and unfortunally...not all the hunters are created equal.

 

Ernesto C

[azmetalman]

I agree. Practice, practice, practice your shooting technique. Then hunt, glass, spot, stalk and shoot carefully. Stalking takes skill, practice and good shooting to get the job done. Save your 800 yard shots for the the 1,000 meter range and paper where you won't have any chance of wounding anything but your ego.

Tony you are a credible scribe I wish you didn't subscribe to the "if it's legal it's ethical" philosophy.