Anybody bowhunt scrapes?

[Rembrant]

I spent two days high on a mountain in a tree overlooking a habitual scrape. The day before I got there, Mr. Big threw the snow out of the way as well as a bunch of dirt - up to 12 feet away, (looked like where my dog likes to dig in my back yard). Fresh cedar leaves lying in the dirt from a limb above the scrape that has been taking abuse for years. This limb is at my eye level and I am 6'1". This buck would have had to stand up on his hind legs to reach this branch. He also has big feet.

I threw some high dollar -doe in heat- pee right in the scrape and excitedly sat in my tree blind for 2 days.

Nothing happened.

I'm not done with this spot yet, but I was hoping that something would have happened in that amount of time. Don't know when I can go again - maybe in 5-6 days, and I will try and decipher new sign from old to try and figure frequency.

Anybody got any scrape hunting history you would like to share?

Thanks,

Mike

[Guest Ernesto C]

Hey Mike are you sure was a deer scrape? are you sure wasn't a elk or bear scrape? or a racoon or something? did you see the deer tracks? Holy cow a deer scrape at more than 6 feet high,that's MR. BIG for sure I want to hunt there too

 

Ok if it was a deer and the scrape was that fresh,he will be back soon or later,that's his territory,try not to over use or use to much doe in heat and prey that this deer does not find does soon becuase usually they visit scrapes every 2 to 3 days. Always watch the wind direction and get there before ligth,be ready and patience,persistence will pay off,to bad you can't spend there like 4 or 5 days in a row.God bless you.

 

Ernesto C

[Rembrant]

Ernesto,

I am sure that this is Mr. Coues. The snow made the story clear. I considered for a moment that it could have been a carp track, the track was wide enough but not long enough. Besides, this spot is way up in the steeps, and carp live in lakes and streams.

I have 2 concerns: #1, What you said about him gallavanting off chasing does somewhere else. And #2, I am wondering if the snow will push him off of the mountain.

Time is a factor since I have to work for a living, but I will do the best I can.

Thanks for your input/encouragement,

Mike

[More D]

Rembrant

 

As for your concerns: 1. I don't think that you have to worry about Mr. Big finding a receptive doe just yet. I belive that the "rut" has to do with the shorter day/longer nights than with temp. Does will go into estrous soon, but not quite yet. If he is really big he is not wasting time or energy on a doe that is not quite ready.

2. I think the cold/snowy weather changed his rutine a little. When it is cold they move more because it cold.

Stick with it and soon enough his will come buy again (HOPEFULLY)

Work, babies and life in general make it hard some times but all the more rewarding when finally every thing works out!!

 

[Guest Ernesto C]

Yes that is correct More D. Also Mike what I mean is that once he goes in FULL RUT he may not come to scrape as often than in the pre-rut,but like More D stated he is not in full rut yet.

 

When he goes to full rut maybe you will need to move your stand or try some still hunt,remember he will be chasing does,if you find does...BINGO or if you locate travel corridors that cross into each other or bedding areas; that may be an area for your stand becuase he may push the does there.

 

One thing is for sure you are on his TERRITORY so DONT GIVE UP.

 

Maybe I'm getting way ahead to the facts becuase you are going to get him this weekend so God bless you in your hunt.

 

Hey More D so babies make it hard sometimes ha?? that's a good one.

 

Thank you. Ernesto C

[GRONG]

Today I sat in a saddle where I've seen scrapes in the past. I don't have a stand set up so I just sat amongst a couple of oak trees and got out the grunt tube and antlers like the midwestern and easterners do to see if it'd work. I really don't have a clue what a Coues buck's grunt sounds like so I just improvised grunting about 3-4 times in a row and about 10 minutes apart. After I finished grunting I slammed the antlers together for about 1-2 minutes and then I just sat buck on my knees in the trees. I'd sat there long enough for the circulation to get cut off to my feet. I leaned forward to get the blood pumping and looked to my left and there was a spike buck coming nearly right at me. He had a spike on one side and a nub on the other and still my heart was about to pound out of my chest. He walked past me at 12 yards and finally caught wind of me and took off. I was hoping that my recently laundered clothes would keep me scent free but it wasn't happenin. I even had two film cannisters with cotton and Tinks 69 doe in heat scent and the tarsal glands off of a recently killed Dec deer, set out in the trees to cover my scent. Didn't work but oh well, talk about exciting!! About 10 minutes later I caught movement about 125 yards out and another buck was walking by. No matter how much I grunted or rattled the antlers he didn't even look over. I gave up after about an hour of my feet falling asleep and took a walk. About 2 hours later I walked up on the buck that walked by me and his doe at about 30 yards. She busted out and stopped about 40 yards away and looked around. I didn't move just letting my camo do the job. The buck finally decided he better catch up and walked by at around 25-30 yards, too quick to take a shot. After several minutes of standing in the trees he finally came out at around 35-40 yards and when he hit the opening I whistled, stopped perfectly broadside and I was already at full draw. I'd like to tell you that I let her rip but I just couldn't get myself to release my arrow at that 50" 3x3 on the first day of the year. What a blast! Can't wait to get out there again next week. I did end up seeing several scrapes but most all of them hadn't been used in several days. I'll check it out next week.

 

Josh Epperson

[CB1]

That's a good story.....just a matter of time,brother...BH

[Guest Ernesto C]

Exciting Josh you are doing great, is not easy to get 30 or so yards from a coues,I agree with CB1. Thanks and God bless you.

 

Ernesto C.

[Rembrant]

I've been sittin in the same tree over the same scrape that this string started with. Saw nothin the first two days. A week later, in two days I saw a doe and fawn. They camped out at 30 yds for two hours. Thusday, Jan 1st, I finally made it back out. Jumped two deer on the way in (one was a doe - no ID on other). Between 9 & 11 six does (in two groups) came in to lick the salt that I had previously placed by the big scrape. Two more single does did a walk by.

This morning, Jan 2nd, a fork horn with about a 12" spread walked across the salt and right through the scrape and as close as 17 yds. I took a couple of pics. Didn't want to shoot him. Too early in the year to tag out on a rag rack (his G-2's were both broke off). But man that was cool! And about time! This is my sixth day here!

Less than an hour later the continual scraping noise that I wrote off as an Abert squirrel turned into a deer 40 yds away! Had him figured for a buck 'cause of the scraping and the size of his neck. He stepped out of the oak and revealed a solid 90" rack. A little crabby in front, but with 6" G-2's. A really nice, tall, symetrical rack. He has one doe with him and is behind the alligator I'm sitting in. He walks around scraping the ground and breaking limbs off of overhanging branches, then he starts going away uphill! So I grunt. He keeps going. So I bleat. He keeps going. At 60 yds he beds down. His doe is about 30 yds from him. 4 minutes later he gets up and starts toward his doe and then downhill with her following him. This is good. He is going to pass by me at 20 yds to my right. I'm set up to shoot to my left. That's OK. If he continues I'll get a shot straight in front of me at about 25 yds. He does not continue. He stops and then attempts to attack his doe at full speed. She is just as fast as he is and they sprint back up the hill 40 yds.! They stand 15 yds apart, and back behind my right shoulder again. I read his mind: He says, "Guess your not ready yet." She says, "Got that right, handsome! But I kinda like this." Then she squats to pee while she's lookin at him batting her eyes. He scrapes the ground and says, "grunt, grunt.......grunt, grunt (YESS! I got to hear a Coues buck grunt!). She stands there and lets him walk by. They both move over behind my left shoulder at 40 yds. I lose sight of her, but I pick him up coming DOWNHILL TO MY LEFT!! He stops and stomps the ground. At first I thought he was on to me, but he was looking further down hill. I believe that he was trying to shake loose the deer he heard earlier (that would have been ME grunting and bleating). He moves behind some small pines and oak at 20 yds. He stops at the edge of the cover. Beyond that is 15 feet of clean air to the lick. My total consentration is on this buck. On his last few steps to the edge of the cover, I brought my bow verticle. He stopped and I stopped. Not knowing how long this will be, I firm my grip on bow and string to stabelize my stance. As I put pressure on my string, the cable moved slightly on the cable guard making an ever so slight "dink". Now I know where the doe is, in my periphial vision, I see her beginning to move back uphill. She was right under my tree not 5 feet away!! She was probably watching me bring my bow verticle, wondering, "What th..."!?

The buck goes back uphill through the cover and they both exit - stage left. A half hour later another buck comes out of where the two had exited. This was yet another 3 point, not counting eye guards (80 class). He does a walk by across the hill above and behind me at about 55 yds.

Had to come home today to take care of human things. I will get back out when I can.

This encounter was really special. How COOL to field judge a Coues buck for 15 minutes without the aid of optics! This was very much like close encounters with big bull elk in the rut with a bow. Maybe even more special because of the rarity of this happening - at least to me!

I am concerned about getting my draw in close proximity to the deer. All of my hunting experience tells me to draw while the animal is still behind cover, but after watching these Coues deer up close and personal, they generally STOP EVERYTHING at the slightest noise or movement until they figure it out or until they get comfortable again. That could be two minutes or longer!

The question: Does a person draw the bow while the buck is still behind cover and hope he continues walking? -OR- Does a person draw the bow while the buck is in the clear and hope that he stays?

Experienced answers please. Josh? Standman? anybody?

Thanks,

Mike

[galiuro mountain man]

Depends on the deer, I have had deer see me draw and actually walk closer to check me out. Also I have had deer bolt as soon as they saw or heard me even behind cover. I just try to figure out what the deer might do before he figures it out. But when I know the deer isnt paying any attention to me, even while they are in the open I just draw as slow and quietly as possible.

 

I got a story about my hunt this past August. Opening day first thing in the morning I see 2 forkies and a little button horn buck at 20 yards graising away, they just looked at me for a few seconds then wnt to graising again, I think wow first 20 minutes of the hunt, this should be a good hunt. I pass because I am still walking to where I was going to hunt. I get to my spot at 8am after a 2 mile hike into the wilderness and sit down. I havent even gotten comfortable yet and a doe and what looked like another button walks by at 30 yards and dont even see me.

 

Nothing goes on for a while untill 1pm, I hear something coming from my left, I use just my eyes to look, it was a monster buck well over 100" walking my way. He isnt even paying attention to me, so I slowly turn my head, and at that time the bill of my hat hits a small stick and it breaks. The deer bolted and was gone.

Now all it that happened was a stick broke and he was gone.

 

The next day I do the same thing walking into my spot, this time I pull my bow without an arrow just to see what would happen, the deer just looked up at me then went back to eating. This day I had 2 other people with me though, and when they caught up to me the deer ran off.

 

Well we get to our spot and start to figure out where we are going to sit. I find my place, and guess what, someone was already there! A 5 1/2 foot long rattlesnake. Well I decide I am bigger than him and grab a long stick and move him about 150yards from where we will be. Nothing happens for a couple of hours untill I hear some leaves being moved. I slowly turn my head and there he was, well the snake, I now know that he has a problem with me so I use other means that I knew would take care of him. This time I moved him back to where I had before. He had a proper burrial.

 

Anyways I walk up to one of my friends and was asking him what he wanted to do since nothing was coming in, about that time we hear hooves, so I sit down, in the open. We then see bucks! 4 of them 2 small ones and two monsters. They are at 80 yards now. I see one of them is the buck from the day before.

I just stay as still as possible, I dont even think I was breathing. The two small ones get to the water hole and are 20 yards away now. Both big ones move to 60 yards straight in front of me. So I start moving my bow as slowly as possible, must have taken 5 minutes to get into drawing position. I keep running the yardage though my mind, and decide since it is a level, open shot and no wind to shoot. I start to pull back as slow as possible and realize it was too slow, I started to shake and so did my arrow on my rest. The big deer turns and looks right at me, remember, I am in the open! So I decide to pull fast and see what happens, I get all the way back and he hasnt moved. I set my pin on his side and let it go. It was a perfect release, arrow flying perfect, a perfect shot. Untill I notice my arrow hitting a stick about a yard in front of him then crashing into a rock. The angle was just perfect I couldnt see the stick against the deers body. I went and checked for any sign of a hit, nothing, my arrow and broadhead were up against the rock with nothing on them, I was relieved I didnt have to chase a wounded deer around.

 

So you see, it just depends on the deer, that deer spooked so easily the day before and didnt move till my arrow hit the rock next to him the day after.

 

Oh, so far I havent seen him again......YET!!!

 

 

Good luck

[Guest Ernesto C]

Mike in my opinion and I'm talking for experience,WAIT until the buck is in the open or clearing and then you draw;this is specially important if the buck has not seen you,this will give you anywhere from 6 to 8 seconds,which is plenty of time for you to make the shot.

 

While reading your story you make my heart beat faster like if I was there too!! Wow keep us updated with your hunt,patience and persistance will pay off.

 

Thanks and God bless you. Ernesto C.

[Rembrant]

Thanks for the comments guys. Anybody else?

I am leaning towards pulling on them in the open like Ernesto suggests. I appreciate your testimony too Galiuro Man, it's a gamble for sure, but it might pay off. I can't stand the thought of pulling my bow while the buck is behind cover only to have him stop and leave me stranded doing the wobble thing.

I thought someone would tell me my stand is too close to the lick. And I think it is. 20 yds is TIGHT! I am not going to change it till after this hunt. I have a plan for another tree that is about 35 yds distance, but it will take considerable modification and I don't want to disturb the area now. In Josh's story above he got his draw at 35-40 yds and then stopped the deer with a whistle. I don't think I can get my draw undetected at 20yds, but I think it will be better while the deer is in the open. Hopefully he will stand there and try to figure me out while I zero in. If he's getting spooky but not yet bolting, I plan to make a squirrel noise with my tongue behind my front teeth. This may confuse him further and buy me another second or two. I stopped the broken horned forkey at 45 yds with this noise. He stood there forever (maybe 2 minutes). Two weeks ago I called an Abert squirrel up my alligator with this noise and he didn't freak until he saw the whites of my eyes at about 5 feet.

 

These deer are SNEAKY! The only deer that I have heard approach was the big rutty buck. Even when the ground was dry, I don't know a deer is approaching until I see them. Twice I didn't know three deer were on the lick until I turned my head and wowie!!

I am using the coues deer grunt call from www.ModernCall Products.com. After hearing that buck do all the grunting, I was able to match the tone. The Couse deer IS a higher pitch than what most of the products out there have. I am also using the Primos Can bleat call. Twice I had does come in within ten minutes after using the can. I am gaining some confidence with these calls. I have been experimenting with these calls as the deer are leaving the area yet still in sight. I have not turned one around yet, but there seems to be no harm done. Weather watching a buck or doe or using the grunt or bleat the most common reaction is: the deer stops walking and looks back for a few moments and then continues on his/her way. The doe and fawn that stayed for two hours, stayed in spite of my experimenting with them (they even bedded down). The 90" buck in the above story, I think, was actually influenced by the grunts and bleat though it was not immediate.

This is a barrel full of fun. I can't go again until NEXT Sat, Sun, Mon. (I worked it out with my loving, considerate, beautiful, understanding, awesome, irreplacable wife).

Hopefully the rut will still be kickin in.

Mike

[Guest Ernesto C]

Mike that info.about the calling and different types of calls you are using is very important to me and I hope some other people is learning too,I thank you for that.

 

What is your maximum range with a bow?how far can you shoot?

 

I think your treestand is ok where it is,for example my own personal range is 40 yds,I will not shot past 40 yds so I always put my treestand 20 yds from where I think the deer will be or walk,this give me another 20 yds for error;if the buck happens to walk 30 or 40 yds from me he is still with in bow range.

 

This deer are incredible,their hearing is probably 50 or more times better than ours,it seems that they can hear you breathing;and like you said one second you see them the other you dont,they truly are the grey ghost.

 

Blessings. Ernesto C.

[GRONG]

Mike, Holy crap that was an awesome story!! Like Ernesto said my heart was getting all pumped up too just reading that. You know, I can read all the eastern deer hunting tales and not really react all that much but reading Coues stories always always get me going!!!! I'm going to have to buy me one of those cans you mentioned and maybe a new grunt tube. That 3pt that I passed on a few days ago grunted as he went by and at 25-30 yards I could barely hear it and wasn't really sure it was him untill he did it 2 more times. It was really low toned and when he did it he was following that doe. A friend of mine told me that he was watching a spike across a drainage maybe 150 yards and he could hear that deer grunting real loud several times. I don't know what the circumstances were but maybe one of these days we'll all be able to get it figured out. Mike I'd sure stick with that spot. In the spot that I was in it'd be tough for a stand cause most of the trees died from that droubt last year in the area I was at so I'm kind of stuck out in the open. I'd like to bring some burlap camo and set it up but I'd be afraid of all the scent that it would bring too. Oh well. Man I can't wait to get back out there. Hopefully on Tues/Wed.

Good luck guys

Josh

[Rembrant]

Ernesto, Josh,

I shoot an old but good Browning Mirage. I'm still dangerous out to 50, but prefer 40yds and under. That's good thinking Ernesto - considering possible shots beyond the lick. I've been reading a bunch of books on the Eastern whitetail tactics and 20yds is pretty standard, Like I said earlier, I'm not gonna change anything now. I'm gonna take my chances with what I got. Hopefully I'll get another opportunity.

I just get so darn excited!

I might have killed that pretty buck if I had been more patient and made sure of where the doe was. They were coming right to the lick! But NOOOOOOOO, I had to bring my bow verticle so's not to miss the first opportunity for a shot at the buck.

I was SET UP by that first broken horned buck - he just walked right on through - stepped over the lick and left tracks on the scrape and left without even slowing down. A guy would have to be pretty aggressive to get a shot in a situation like that. Like Galuero Man said, "every situation is different."

The 90 incher grunted alot, maybe 15 times altogether, and I could also barely hear him. The first few times that I heard him I had to wonder, "Did I just hear him grunt?"

I am only 13 feet up in this tree and a deer ain't smelt me yet. I have had the wind blowing directly at the deer many times with no ill effects. I'm feeling so confident with this that I even fart when I want to. Also I read once that rubber boots are the best for walking in and out of a tree stand because they are scentless. This is what I have been wearing and sometimes the deer come in to the stand right on top of my tracks. I hate wearing them things 'cause my socks get sucked down to my toes, but this seems to be paying off.

Nope, I ain't going anywhere else Josh. I'm gonna play this thing out. I tried hard to develope other set-ups earlier this fall but nothing else panned out. I just hope I don't start getting more deerless days like before. I'm braindead enough to sit in a tree for days, but my butt complains alot.

Mike