Huge Bucks

[WadeNAZ]

Has anyone blamed Global Warming yet?... I think 308nut is spot on. It seems like I recall quite a few stories where either outfitters or groups of friends scout and spend a lot more time out there stalking these trophies and can make a phone call and get their "shooter" setup for a kill.

 

Yeah I said "shooter"

[2 Full Curls]

I agree with a little of everything that has been said.

 

I have always grown up hearing my Dad and Grandpa talking about the "glory" days of seeing more deer on every hunt and pig herds over 100. The ironic thing is, the top-three largest coues that my Dad has ever seen have been on our hunts the last five years. It's a product of changing hunting styles, and equipment. My Dad grew up slow stalking his way through the woods and when a buck flagged you did your best to make a running shot. Now we have tripods and adaptors and swaro scopes. I know guys, and have heard my Dad tell stories from the late sixties and early seventies about guys, that put down some 120+ monster coues back then. But most of those stories involved hunting off horseback and "jumping" a BIG one. And the big animals that my family took back then... they never had a desire to measure them. Pictures were taken and if it was a 4X4 mulie or a 3X3 coues it got mounted.

 

I'm 22 and love to hunt coues. I have been dreaming about getting behind my glass opening morning of my upcoming hunt. I know the equipment I have at my disposal gives me the best opportunity at harvesting a great buck. But with that said, I'd trade it all in second, to hunt how my dad grew up doing it. A LOT less people and more "hunter opportunity"!

[lacouesniper]

You of course have to look higher up in the hills for bucks, but depending on where you are you have to look near or in certain plants. I personally have had a lot of luck in the ocotillo thickets.

[Coach]

I'm glad to see so many responses to this post, with such a wide variety of contributors. I think Super Jumbo may be on to something. G&F reduced the rut tags across the state, and in some cases doubled or tripled those tags in October and November. I've been on my share of late December hunts, and a few November hunts.

 

In my experience, a late December hunt, when the rut is in full swing, is certainly no guarantee of even seeing a congo buck. They definately do move more, which makes the chances of seeing a buck during the "slow hours" improve...That said, most of the bucks I've seen bird-dogging at mid-day during the heat of the rut weren't the big bruisers - they were the smaller bucks trying to get a chance at the does. November is even harder, IMO. The bucks seem to move infrequently, they aren't being led by the desire to breed. They seem to occupy a tiny bit of landscape and spend most of their time bedded.

 

Maybe more mature bucks are making it through the early hunts, by moving little, if at all during daylight, with substantially less pressure during the rut is what is allowing 3-4 year old bucks turn into 6-7 year old bucks.

 

 

 

 

[CouesBuckhunter]

my theory on this year alone is that there are such huge bucks because of the abundant rains we had this year making for good nutrition

[CouesBuckhunter]

You of course have to look higher up in the hills for bucks, but depending on where you are you have to look near or in certain plants. I personally have had a lot of luck in the ocotillo thickets.

well said! i have found numerous 100-115+ bucks in the ocotillo thickets. in fact, my dad killed a 111 4x4 coues in the ocotillo/mesquite/oak thickets this year back in august.

[Westy]

I'm glad to see so many responses to this post, with such a wide variety of contributors. I think Super Jumbo may be on to something. G&F reduced the rut tags across the state, and in some cases doubled or tripled those tags in October and November. I've been on my share of late December hunts, and a few November hunts.

 

In my experience, a late December hunt, when the rut is in full swing, is certainly no guarantee of even seeing a congo buck. They definately do move more, which makes the chances of seeing a buck during the "slow hours" improve...That said, most of the bucks I've seen bird-dogging at mid-day during the heat of the rut weren't the big bruisers - they were the smaller bucks trying to get a chance at the does. November is even harder, IMO. The bucks seem to move infrequently, they aren't being led by the desire to breed. They seem to occupy a tiny bit of landscape and spend most of their time bedded.

 

Maybe more mature bucks are making it through the early hunts, by moving little, if at all during daylight, with substantially less pressure during the rut is what is allowing 3-4 year old bucks turn into 6-7 year old bucks.

 

 

Hasn't AZ G&F increased the number of tags during the prime time to spot bachelor herds? More bucks seen = more bucks killed. Just based on photo evidence alone, you see a lot more photos these days of doubles on bucks when that was very rare during the rut hunts. My prediction is that after a few more years with this hunt structure we will see a decline in hunt success and a drop in numbers of bucks.

[HOSS....]

I am from San Carlos... and have seen maybe 2 bucks in my lifetime over 120s mark... Its due to great management....not many tribal members hunt coues, due to wanting more meat which is mule deer. Those big bucks killed this year had to do with the excellent rainfall we have this past summer... 7inches more than we had last year so horn growth is spectacular... We have an average of 500 hunters hunt on the tribal hunt in October,and at least 100 nonmember coues hunters in a year with only a 30 - 40 percent success which is good... but there is alot of country on the rez(1.8 million acres of coues). Im not a biologist but a guide who hits the field 100 days out of the year... hope this might explain a little

[Guest super jumbo]

I am from San Carlos... and have seen maybe 2 bucks in my lifetime over 120s mark... Its due to great management....not many tribal members hunt coues, due to wanting more meat which is mule deer. Those big bucks killed this year had to do with the excellent rainfall we have this past summer... 7inches more than we had last year so horn growth is spectacular... We have an average of 500 hunters hunt on the tribal hunt in October,and at least 100 nonmember coues hunters in a year with only a 30 - 40 percent success which is good... but there is alot of country on the rez(1.8 million acres of coues). Im not a biologist but a guide who hits the field 100 days out of the year... hope this might explain a little

Well put hoss, i agree with you that the rainfall in recent years has helped the antler growth. I also think you guys on the san carlos do an exceptional job with your management of all your species including coues deer. I have always wondered how many tribal members hunt deer in a given year on the carlos. If you had to guess, what % of the members hunt mule deer verses coues deer each year out of the 500 tags? Also, do the tribal members shoot very many lions on the reservation? Hoss, do you know about how many lions are harvested on the reservation each year? On a side note, i still think that lowering the tags for the december rut hunts(on public lands), and raising the tags for the early hunts has helped the age class of deer in az. Yes the "groups of bucks" are easier to spot on the early hunts because they are bunched up, but they spend less time in the open overall . I also think that after the first few days of the early hunt the big bucks go nocternal and also tighten up their home range, thus reducing their overall exposure to the increased amount of tags. These big deer can stay in their little 200 hundred yard by 200 hundred yard box quite comfortably thru all the early hunts. Its on the december hunts that they stroll out of their fortress, and run around on open hillsides. I also rarely see big bucks with groups of other deer. 8 out of 10 times a big buck is by himself most of the time in my experience. I think that the increased tags on the early hunts will lower the buck to doe ratio overall, but increase the chances of big bucks making it thru and not being killed in december. These big bucks spend very little time up in the open in the early hunts.

[Coach]

Hey HOSS, thanks for posting. I also have some questions about San Carlos bucks. A while back I was fortunate enough to hunt the San Carlos 2 out of 3 years. Both times I was in a group of really hard-core coues guys, and while we saw a few good bucks scouting, almost everyone went home empty, with the exception of one guy taking an OK buck late in the hunt.

 

Don't get me wrong, we were looking for strictly 100+ bucks at a minimum, and saw a few in that range but we thought we'd see multiple 115+ type bucks. I missed a really nice buck that I'm guessing was around 110, but that's a whole story in itself. Let's just say I was broken down and living in the Taco Bell parking lot over Thanksgiving waiting for Checker or AutoZone to open. LOL. I met an old rancher who told me exactly where to go, and exactly where to look, and viola, there he was, I just tanked the shot.

 

Two years later, I met up one night with an old trapper, probably 80+ years old, driving a beat up white VW beetle. It was obvious, this man has spent many a night on a bedroll on the Rez. We BS'd a bit by the fire but eventually he started talking about how few big bucks he had seen in the past few years, compared to the "old days" as he described.

 

Not trying to stir anything up, but he implied that poaching big whitetail was a major factor over the past few years. His premise was, that more woodcutters on the reservation were killing more and more WT bucks over the years, whereas in the past they were killing more does (out of convenience) strictly for meat. Well, no one on the San Carlos gets deeper into the woods than the local woodcutters, so what he told me made a lot of sense - not to mention he was old enough to forget more about hunting big bucks than I'm likely to ever know.

 

I just thought I'd see what your take was on this. I love the San Carlos, and I'd hunt it every year if I could afford it. I would just like to understand it a little better. Shoot me a PM if you get the chance. There's some areas I'd like to talk about. If you are into picking up sheds, I found a honey hole a couple years back. I couldn't take any, so I'm sure there are still a lot on the ground.

 

 

 

[Xman2000]

Seems to be a little bit of truth in all theses comments on this topic the net, the cameras ,the equipment, the optics ,the rainfall ,and even the controlled burns in the forest areas I feel have helped out the whole Eco system I really didn't think about it till a forest service guy I met while hunting 27 brought it to my attention we were BSing about the deer and elk populations booming and he was saying that since all these fires have happened controlled and man caused they have noticed that natural springs that have been bone dry for years are now sprouting up all over the place seems the trees are competing for water too and now that some are mowed down the natural springs have come back up so more animals have more to drink witch every one knows is key and populations are thriving in some areas (plus now they are easy to see now that there are fewer trees LOL) .I mentioned this to a rancher witch he told me his cows are 50 to 100 pounds heavier this year so his theory is the rainfall and the springs seems to have helped his livestock .Every thing benefits from more water just my added $.02