State land access closed in 36b

[vegasjeep]

How many people are versed in law and understand parts of the Buenes Aires being closed off to hunting to bring back the "bob white" which they have been trying for over 20 years. They are also trying to remove ALL mesquite trees as well. Not to mention those of us who have keys to the "closed" gates to get on to the state trust land they are now ticketing.

 

What is everyones opinions on the fish and wildlife doing this? The new Game Warden in 36B is now handing out tickets.

 

After 25 years when does the EXCUSE of planting "bob Whites" not a valid excuse anymore?

[bonecollector]

Who is the warden in 36b? I know some of the warden's in the southern units I can ask.

[vegasjeep]

He is new and been their about one month living at the house on the ranch. He is spewing the same BS about the closure being due to re introducing the bob white to the area. It doesn't work, they are coyote bait and I challenge any of them as others have to shoe me thus thriving population of bob whites that they have trying to re establish to the area for 25 years!

 

They are trying to or claim to ridding the entire area mesquite trees in an effort to bring the area back to the way it was 150 years ago.

The flip side of this is at the cost of diminishing the now thriving mule deer heards which are growing in numbers again

[joeybari]

Ok so I looked it up bcs i had no idea about this. Just looking at the facts, and one thing that stand out to me after reading some of the articles online, is the introduction of cows maybe a big factor in the decline of the bird. I don’t see how hunting has anything to do with population growth make no sense to me why hunters are be denied hunting areas because of this. I will point out the fact that if the game & fish is involved we are ultimately (hunters) paying for it. So I offer a simple solution, use us the hunters to help. Hand out filers to hunters in the area lets us give you (game and Fish) some sort of survey on what we come across in regards to the bird. I would even venture to say if you asked must hunters in that unit would help. And if and thats a big if coyotes are a problem for these birds well GAF should have a coyote day with fun and prizes LOL.

 

 

 

Here is the really bad article

http://www.abcbirds.org/newsandreports/stories/100628.html

[Hunting6]

Many of the decisions being made on how to manage the Bueno Aires ultimately derives from individuals on the East Coast. I for one am totally infuriated with how they have made some ludicrous decisions without any input whatsoever from other interest groups like (AG&F, Hunters, as well as Az Deer Association). The Citizens who own that land have no say in what is being done there. From my point of View, The Buenos Aires folks are totally Anti-Hunting. In the beginning, one of the first things they decided to do was shut down all of the water tanks that run throughout the preserve. and more recently they decided to create "No hunting zones" then hire several new law enforcement agents who now, not only patrol the Buenos Aires interior, but are patrolling the highway and handing out speeding tickets like candy.

A couple of them I have spoken with, came across as holier than thou attitude.

 

I believe there are needs for law enforcement, but to what degree.

The huge amounts of "our" money that has been thrown toward re-introducing a small game bird that seldom or no one has ever seen, is ridiculous. 20 years with no results !

They have also been buying up any adjacent lands/ranches that come up for sale, then shutting down access.

 

I would like to have a voice in there decision making process, and today, it is very obvious... that is not the case.

[roninflag]

since he is new, i would say he is doing what he is told to do. talk to someone above him.

[azgutpile]

I don't know the area that well, but is the area that they closed right on the border with Mexico?

 

Here is a link to a flyer regarding a closed area in the refuge.

 

http://www.fws.gov/southwest/refuges/arizo...DFs/Closure.pdf

[Xman2000]

I can tell you most of the birds that are still are alive in that area are not even living in the buenos Aries area I have found them as far North as King Anvil ranch next to three points and way down south by Pena Blanca Lake .I have even spotted tagged Antelope roaming at three points! The other joke is they have there own coyote season on the refuge area and will ticket you if you kill one of the coyotes out of season the whole refuge laws are to say the least dumb and they seem to listen more to complaints about hunters .They fall on deaf ears if a Hunters complains to them .It would be something if Hunters got together and really made our voice heard!I'm with you guys on there deliberately trying to waist tax payers money and mismanage the refuge

[RoughCut]

Does anybody know if there is a place where you can get gps coordinates for the boundries of these refuges. What really chaps me is that there is one spot down there where they basically say they will castrate you if you step foot on the property but there isn't any fence line or signage to designate boundry lines.

 

Any help would be great.

 

Thanks

[firstcoueswas80]

I hunted coyotes quite a bit down on the BA this past year. I did alot of research to the coyote season down there and I think it USED to be a three month only season,but I think that has sense changed and it is open, although I do believe fox or bobcats can not be taken for some reason. That strikes me as odd as I could think cats and fox would kill more of the precious, mysterious quail than a coyote would, but thats just my opinion.

[DesertBull]

That strikes me as odd as I could think cats and fox would kill more of the precious, mysterious quail than a coyote would, but thats just my opinion.

 

If the quail take hold and actually thrive, the tofu crowd lose their grant money. It's all a big game.

 

 

[recurveman]

Does anybody know if there is a place where you can get gps coordinates for the boundries of these refuges. What really chaps me is that there is one spot down there where they basically say they will castrate you if you step foot on the property but there isn't any fence line or signage to designate boundry lines.

 

Any help would be great.

 

Thanks

 

 

Look at the map that someone provided in a previous post. That will give you a good idea of the boundry line. There are signs that tell you what is closed and what is open. If I remember correctly there is a road that on the south side you can't hunt and on the north side you can hunt.

[vegasjeep]

Does anybody know if there is a place where you can get gps coordinates for the boundries of these refuges. What really chaps me is that there is one spot down there where they basically say they will castrate you if you step foot on the property but there isn't any fence line or signage to designate boundry lines.

 

Any help would be great.

 

Thanks

 

 

Not really. I could try and mark some up for us.

 

I do know that if your crossing the Refuge to get to a hunting spot the new Warden has ticketed and said he will ticket ANYONE with a loaded gun in the car or on person. So be very careful.

[RoughCut]

Does anybody know if there is a place where you can get gps coordinates for the boundries of these refuges. What really chaps me is that there is one spot down there where they basically say they will castrate you if you step foot on the property but there isn't any fence line or signage to designate boundry lines.

 

Any help would be great.

 

Thanks

 

 

Look at the map that someone provided in a previous post. That will give you a good idea of the boundry line. There are signs that tell you what is closed and what is open. If I remember correctly there is a road that on the south side you can't hunt and on the north side you can hunt.

 

Thanks guys. The area I am looking at in particular is the brown canyon area in 36c. You can drive up to a spot where there is a locked gate and a little parking area and that is where they say it's closed. There is a little sign that says foot access here, and points to a trail. The trail goes all of 30 yards maybe and is so grown over that there is no way through it. I tried glassing the eastern edge of it so I could make a way around it and I couldn't see anything, (signs fences, etc).

 

 

[billrquimby]

Unless I'm missing something, there's nothing new here. Vehicle access into Brown Canyon for hunters has been closed for at least 35 years that I know of, and that means long before the USFWS acquired it for its refuge.

 

That canyon was one of the places I wrote about in a series of articles about the increased loss of access to public lands that I did for the Tucson Citizen way back in the early 1980s. Before that, a hunter had sued the State Land Department director for malfeasance for not prosecuting a landowner who had locked the gate at the canyon's entrance. The hunter lost the lawsuit. The landowner disliked hunting so much, he began setting off dynamite charges during the hunting season, hoping to scare deer away from hunters. (The deer I watched when I hunted there paid no attention to the noise.)

 

When that landowner sold his holdings, wildlife artist Ray Harm bought them and continued to keep hunters out. After the feds acquired everything in the canyon, the refuge manager moved to close all of Brown Canyon to hunting, but couldn't close the state land. Here's what the USFWS website says now:

 

Hunting

Hunting is permitted on approximately 90% of the Refuge. In addition to all Arizona State Hunting Regulations, there are several Refuge-specific regulations that are in effect and must be followed. Please refer to the Refuge Hunt Brochure for a hunt map and listing of current regulations specific to Buenos Aires National wildlife Refuge. State regulations pertaining to hunting can be found at the Arizona Game and Fish Department’s website:

http://www.gf.state.az.us/

 

Access

Hunting is not permitted in high public use areas and near residences. These NO HUNT ZONES are posted on the ground and are identified in the Refuge Hunt Brochure. Brochures are available at Refuge Visitor Centers and brochure boxes posted throughout the Refuge. Motorized vehicles are restricted to roadways. Access may be limited by weather conditions. Refuge land in Brown Canyon is closed to hunting. Hunter access to state land in Brown Canyon is limited. All hunters must sign in and out and must follow designated routes of travel.

 

Bill Quimby