Possible new BILL!!!

[jamaro]

Okay Guys... PLEASE VOTE BE VOCAL... We have a shot here... LOOK AND VOTE.. SPREAD THE WORD...

 

http://newmexicoindependent.com/64571/new-...unting-licenses

 

http://newmexicohuntingsurvey.com/

 

Jason

 

 

[TAM]

I am a non resident to New Mexico and I have done very well in drawing tags there over the years. I have often said that it's too bad that I can draw an antelope tag so easily when there are many residents that have been applying for years and years without success. I think the knee-jerk reaction is yes of course the residents deserve more tags! However I think a little caution behind the motivation is in order. It seems that the reasoning behind Mr. Munoz idea is that if other states residents are getting more tags then so should the residents of NM. While this in fact may be true I think it's a dangerous road to travel. Every state is different, and each state has a limited resource to manage. On top of that each state has different management styles and objectives to maintain. I think there is a lot more to look at than just saying "all the other states have more resident tags available so I think we should too". Imagine what would happen if all the western states started competing with one another to see who could get the highest number of resident tags guaranteed its residents? Pretty soon non resident opportunities would go down the toilet. Also, Mr. Munoz is quick to point at Arizona "right across the border", but what about the northern border? Colorado seems to have a very effective game management plan which guarantees its residents fewer than 90% of the tags. Mr. Munoz also failed to include the fact that while AZ and NM may be neighbors they are VERY different when it comes to hunting opportunity! Arizona has no land owner tag program while New Mexico does. Arizona has twice the population and much fewer game animals than New Mexico. I think Mr. Munoz needs to look at the big picture and not just use the facts that benefit his idea to steer people into making a decision based on emotion.

 

I'm not saying 90% is right or wrong. I'm just saying that there are a lot of other facts to consider.

 

Sometimes it's not in my sons best interest for me to go buy him a new bike just because the neighbor kid down the street got a new bike.

 

One way or the other this will be an interesting story to follow and I sincerely hope it plays out to the best possible benefit for the hunters and wildlife of New Mexico.

[fatfootdoc]

Survey done!!!

 

TAM, you arent a NM resident so it is easy to second guess him, however I am a NM resident and it is not cool every year to hear how many Non residents have drawn when I know multiple people who live here who cant get a tag. I have had one antelope tag in 9 years(archery) I have an non res. uncle(in law) who has drawn 7 of those 9 years. I have 2 kids actively hunting and 2 getting ready to start. I have been on one elk hunt with them in 4 years of putting in . As far as starting a contest on who can give the highest resident percentage, not going to happen. Game and fish rely to heavily on non resident revenue. The deer tag I put in for in AZ for coues has 5 non res. tags available, based on NM numbers it would have 11. I am all for the change and would even pay more license fees to support it. AG

[TAM]

Survey done!!!

 

TAM, you arent a NM resident so it is easy to second guess him, however I am a NM resident and it is not cool every year to hear how many Non residents have drawn when I know multiple people who live here who cant get a tag. I have had one antelope tag in 9 years(archery) I have an non res. uncle(in law) who has drawn 7 of those 9 years. I have 2 kids actively hunting and 2 getting ready to start. I have been on one elk hunt with them in 4 years of putting in . As far as starting a contest on who can give the highest resident percentage, not going to happen. Game and fish rely to heavily on non resident revenue. The deer tag I put in for in AZ for coues has 5 non res. tags available, based on NM numbers it would have 11. I am all for the change and would even pay more license fees to support it. AG

 

 

Fatfootdoc, no second guessing here! If you carefully re-read my comments you will see where right up front I say: "I have often said that it's too bad that I can draw an antelope tag so easily when there are many residents that have been applying for years and years without success."

 

I've drawn 4 NM antelope tags, one unit 17 archery bull tag, and 2 Burro Mtn deer tags in 6 years of applying as a non-resident. I will be the first to admit that it seems wrong!

 

All I am saying is that Mr. Munoz has brought up a fair question but in doing so it seems that he is basing his position off of the emotional side of the arguement (fairness in comparison with other states). I would like to see some of the other issues that I pointed out be considered as well.

 

I am not against NM keeping more tags for residents. But I do think that there are more issues in play than just trying to keep up with the same percentage of resident tags as Arizona. At least look into the other issues that I pointed out about the quanity of game versus other states, the land owner issues, and the fact that Colorado has similar numbers of resident tags being issued as NM. Once all these issues have been considered if it is in the best interest of NM, Residents, G&F, and the wildlife then go for it! Get your 90% and sleep well knowing that you covered all your bases rather than a knee jerk recation based on an emotional arguement.

 

[jamaro]

TAM

I think you are right... kind of... There are alot of things to consider and that is how we got into this crazy situation... The Dept tried to make everybody happy... NR,R,Outfitters,LO, Tree Hugges... etc... So they came up with the crazy system we have now. We need to say ENOUGH!!!! Sportsman need to stand up and fight for our hunting rights....If 70% of all Antelope Tags went to NR, the people of AZ would be raising heck... You have drawn more antelope tags than I ever have and you have drawn more Burro Mnt tags than I have... This is just wrong...

Hunting is a tradition and a right of passage - this is one of the few things that shouldn't be based on money. The mountain doesn't understand

[TAM]

J, the reason 70% of the tags go to NR's is because the land owners and outfitters have the G&F by the short hairs! The truth is the NR's don't even have a say as far as I know, so they're not even the real problem.

 

I'm not arguing with you or ffdoc I am agreeing, just suggesting what I think is a stronger approach. Take the real issues which in my non-resident opinion are land owner tags and the outfitters pool and combine that with the hunters pent up emotions on the fairness of the current system and you have a winning combination that will put hunting back in the hands of the hunters and not behind the big money LO's and outfitters. However if you simply rely on the emotional side it's like going into a gun fight with with one bullet in your gun.

 

I hope you guys do put the hunters back in the drivers seat. Even if it means fewer tags for me. I would much rather see the hunters behind the wheel than big money.

 

 

 

 

[gonhntn]

TAM,

Maybe you would like to offer us NM residents some sound advice on getting back hunting opportunity. I am all ears at this point. The bottom line is that the NMDGF is penalizing the NM residents for their lack of basic economics. The department needs new leadership and a commision that meets the needs of it's stakeholders. Not special interest groups.

Gonhntn

[tontotom]

Good luck on getting your permits back. Hopefully reason will prevail and things can be fair.

 

I do think that letting landowners have tags to sell undermines the idea that the animals are managed by the state. That said I'm sure that tags provide a huge % of the incentive to keep the land private and not break it up into 40 acre parcels like is happening in Arizona. The issues aren't simple and the best you can hope for is a voice in the fianl outcome.

 

Again, good luck in your fight.

[NMbowhuntr]

The game commision needs to go back to the program that they thought of a few years ago. Other than the deer I think it would work. If you draw an elk tag or antelope tag you have to sit out a year before being able to apply again, I my self have drawn archery antelope 4 out of the 6 years I have applied. I see no problems. I am a resident as well.

[azpredator@work]

There are quite a few long term negatives with only some short term positives for a few with this bill. This issue will go deeper than expected as most wanting the change only are visualizing the crust. The larger deeper issues are not being dealt with and will create problems for Nm in the future. Why do residents of any western state believe they have a "right" to a tag every year? There used to be OTC elk tags in Nm - right? there are reasons why they are no longer there - right? I've never been drawn for antelope in Az in my life - putting in every year for 17 of 18 years as a resident. I've been drawn for Az elk once in the past 16 years as a resident. Can very many Nm residents say the same? IMHO fight for what you believe is right and enjoy the outcome or suffer the consequences. Good luck to you guys in Nm this upcoming year

[DesertBull]

Get rid of landowner tags, especially for antelope, and put those tags in the public draw and a large portion of the problem is solved.

[mje1]

Seems like the last time i looked at new mexico regs it was 78% res 12% to people using a guide and 10% to non res which is the same in ariz. get rid of the 12% held out for the guides and it is no different. The people whining about seeing out of state plates wont see any different in the field because im pretty sure when theyre with a guide theyre probably in their truck with NM plates unless that works for all guides regardless of where there from.

[SunDevil]

personally I think the odds for NRs got better last year when the state of NM jacked up the NR application to $28. I applied for years as a NR for antelope and elk and was never lucky enough to draw. When they upped the application fee, I decided to quit applying. I bet others did as well and that increased the odds for the rest of the NRs who were willing to fork out the $28.

[coueswt]

How is 2% fair for to a non-resident and where is the state going to get the money lost from the non-resident hunters that are spent right now? Should be working with the ranchers/land owners to get some of those tags and access to the applying hunters by giving incentives. Not good for hunting and i guess my days hunting/visiting NM are over if the bill gets through based on the changes, declining trophy quality, and tag fees.

[soazarcher]

Get rid of landowner tags, especially for antelope, and put those tags in the public draw and a large portion of the problem is solved.

 

 

Since the majority of the quality Pronghorn hunting is on private land in NM, if the tags all go to public draw, I'd be curious to see how high the trespass fees would get and/or how many ranches would simply lock their gates to public hunters.

 

While I agree that the currents system is not fair to residents, I don't like sb 196 the way it is currently written. Anxious to see where the UBNM and Munoz end up.