Arizona laws regarding scouting with airplanes

[Huntinfool]

This past week-end my wife, dad, and I were up scouting elk in Unit 10 for my wife's upcoming elk hunt and while we were trying to get some footage of a big bull that we nick named big daddy, a plane flew over very low checking out big daddy. The plane flew right over us three times before moving on to the rest of the unit and of course the elk were long gone. The plane was diffently scouting. Does anyone know if this is against the law to do? We did get the numbers on the plane. I have seen this done in New Mexico where guides drive the elk from public to private land before the season starts and know the NMGF have been cracking down on this. It makes me that while I'm out there spending days looking for a giant for my wife, someone is covering the entire unit in a day. I was at a elk calling seminar earlier this year and the host / guide told me that he had already flown the unit twice and at the time I didn't think anything about it until this past week-end and now I think differently of this individual. What's everyone else's opinion on this?, am I over reacting?

[Guest Ernesto C]

Very good question,I'll try to find an answer.In the mean time this is from the hunting regulations page 64 R12-4-319:

 

2. "Locate"means any act or activity that does not take or harras wildlife and is directed at locating or finding wildlife in a hunt area.

 

C.......................................an individual should NOT LOCATE OR ASSIST IN LOCATING wildlife from or with the aid of an aircraft with a open bog game season.This restriction begins 48 hours BEFORE THE OPENING of a big game season in a hunt unit and extends until the close of the big game season for that hunt unit.

 

So if there is a big game hunt going on,yes that will be illegal unless it falls on the exceptions.Please read R12-4-319 in page 64 of the Az.Regs.2005-2006 edition.

 

Huntinfool,you can also call the Az.G&F and ask the same question.

 

I feel your pain and frustration,four years ago I lost my bull elk thanks to a "control burn" man I was angry and came really close to loose our truck,camp and everything on it.

 

God bless you and your wife on your up coming elk hunt.Thanks.

 

Ernesto C

 

[[/i] The safety is a mechanical device that can fail.Never trust a safety.

[Red Rabbit]

See page 64-65 in the regs under R12-4-319.

Cannot locate with aircraft 48 hours befor the opening of a big game season or in a unit with an open big game season. I would interpret this to include units with archery deer hunts.

 

RR

[bowhunter4life]

good point.yes archery is in season.should call g @ f and give those #s and see what they say.mike

[DEERSLAM]

Jason,

That sucks

Keep scouting hard and keep us posted on your wifes hunt

[wklman]

The only thing is is proving he was trying to locate elk or just out flying around.All he has to say is that he saw the elk and went in for a look at them.Unless you get them on a radio frequency telling someone there scouting there's no way to prove that they were doing anything wrong.I think az g&f or new mexico tryed to get an outfitter for doing this a while back but there was no way to prove it in court.just my dos pesos.

 

Wade

[bowhuntinmaniac]

It's still harrassment of wildlife if they ran from the plane being so close..........I would have called it in right then, but it's never too late.

Probably a big guiding group............can you say USO??

[Couesi1]

All,

These rules were implemented a few years ago after a rash of complaints due to some very unethical behavior by a few folks (primarily using aircraft to locate elk and deer during and just before hunts). Now the state officers have an option to go after these "sportsmen" without using the feds assistance, although they still can and do work with the feds in some cases. It depends on the situation. It doesn't matter if you say you saw some elk and were just going in for a look. If it occurs during the restricted time period, any or all on board can be cited. If you haven't already done so, whether it was a violation or not, I would report the aircraft information to the Az. Game and Fish. It only takes a minute to call in the information to 1-800-352-0700. This information may be useful if it's reported but is useless intelligence if it's not.

c-1

[ScottAdams]

A few years ago in unit 27 we were hunting the Nov. bull hunt. For a few days during the hunt we could see a very low flying plane circliing an area we knew held elk. In talking with a friend who was camped near there, he said that USO had a camp there and in visiting with them was told and shown that they had some new guides who had actually never been to this area. They had a plane locating the elk and giving the coordinates to the guys on the ground. I think opening morning the head guy handed out GPS's with the coordinates of the bulls they had located the previous day to the guides and they took out their clients and went "hunting". I'm not sure but I think this was actually legal then.

 

The only thing I can verify of this story is that I personally saw the plane for 2 or 3 days, during th hunt, flying very low, circling the Mud Springs/Robinson Mesa area. I know if I had been hunting that area I would have been fit to be tied! I think this incident is may have been what triggered the rule change on that.

 

Scott

[Huntinfool]

I'm heading back up to Unit 10 this week-end and going to pay a visit to Tim (AZGF) on my way through Sielgman and give him the info and dvd. We will see what happens.

[wklman]

I saw the same thing in 27 that scott did on 2 different elk hunts.low flying 2 seater plane circling certain areas. I talked to a couple of local guides and they said the same thing about it being USO.

[Flash]

Get the tail numbers next time if you can and call it in immediately. Even then G&F probably won't be able to catch them, but it's worth the try!! I'll be out on the Aubreys looking around this weekend (there's a biggen in there archery hunters)and will keep my eyes open, but this is a common sight in 10 anymore. I report it every year, time and time again.

[.270]

taulman was actually cited for using an airplane illegally. never heard how the court case turned out. he was famous for doing that under the rim in 27. they added laws at least twice to thwart him. unfortunately, now they can hassle the heck outta anyone that flies during season. a friend of mine got in a plane with his pal in st johns and flew to albaquerqe, did some business and came back. when they landed the azgfd was there and tried to cite them for flying during deer season. even tho they didn't have a tag or anything. the ranger ended up getting it packed painfully. now you have to quit arial location 48 hours before the season and can't do it during the season. as far as low flying or whatever, they might be able to cite them for harrassment. heck, about 20 years ago me and another guy were sneaking in on some bulls during archery season when a plane dropped outta nowhere and flushed em everwhere. we got the number off the plane and he raised heck with the FAA over it. come to find out it was a guy contracted by the azgfd with a warden in the plane with him! stinkin' sob's. the guy i was with really raised heck with em over for it for several years. another time we wereslipping in on some bulls during the early muzzleloader season and a chopper came right up the canyon and spooked the heck outta everything. it had a big ol' channel 5 sticker on the side. seems they were filmin' all the yeller trees fer the news. we even seen it that night on the news. killed the bull we were after the next day in a lot better place to get him out. but it still pissed me off when it happened. as far as them spooking your elk. he ain't gonna go far. he'll be wherever the cows are. Lark.

[Rembrant]

Huntifool,

Report the occurance with the Dept and THEN tell Tim Pender that you have reported it. It's kinda like sending an e-mail vs making a phone call - DOCUMENTATION! And accountability. Pender is a busy man. Knowing that the Dept. is aware if the situation will keep the fire lit.

This krap happens all the time. It's all about money. I saw a plane doing the same thing in unit 10 that had no numbers!

Also, what's the fine? $500? That slap on the wrist is only one of the costs of doing business for these "guides".

There are good guides and then there are the rest of them. And there are too darn many of the rest of them. This is part of why there are no more secret spots. Used to be that depending on who got drawn and what they know determined how many people would be in the good spots. Now that guides are abundant and everywhere, hunters are everywhere! Doesn't matter anymore who gets drawn and what they know - all these stinking wanabe guides have their no-knowledge money paying clients everywhere. Just part of our ever changing hunting future. It stinks.

Anytime you can put the screws to a law breaking guide, PLEASE DO IT!!!!! and follow through.

Mike