North American Deer Slam

[DEERSLAM]

Whoooo... there DEERSLAM"

I'm not quite sure what you ment by you're P.S. quote.

If you new Jay Gates you would know that he took 8 slams in 8 consecutive years. Most were true trophys & taken on his own. There was a time when you could hunt private prop. by asking & being a good stewart. He is one heck of a deer hunter.

Since those days he continues to kill some truely monsterous bucks, of all species.

He just does'nt care if anybody  knows.

DH

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The quote wasn't mine.

 

What I'm am saying is you've got to have money to do that much hunting or make your living hunting. I know he makes some money as an author writing about his hunts, I have read many of them and know of some of his accomplishments.

 

What I'm saying is if a good hunter that can shoot straight, had the money, time off work, some good tips on where to hunt, he or she could take a deer slam. I didn't say they had to be record book heads or even close, any mature animal is a trophy.

 

Also notice the smile at the end of my comment-

[coueshunter]

Just to make sure we are all on the same page, Jay shot the slams years ago even before coues was recognized as a seperate B&C animal. I dont think he was rich, he worked his bottom off to make the deal happen and each slam he got was done in a calendar year. I understand what Deerslam is saying about having the time and money to make it happen but if I am right, Jay was an average guy back then when it didnt take tons of money, just time away from work. p.s. Jay doesnt make any money from being a writer (to my knowledge) and his book "Bucks I Have Taken" has been out of print for years. Couesnut is a very good friend of Jay and I just want to make sure none of us fight or mistake Jay's accomplishments as someone who just paid for his hunts. No offense to anyone, just wanted to jump in here and hopefully keep feathers from being ruffled and keep focused on the subject.....DeerSlam, hope you get your slam soon...........Couesnut, where have you been hiding?.........here's to everyone/anyone who wants to get the B&C deerslam. If I can help out with logistics or give my info on Alaska transporters or whatever, just ask. Alaska is the expensive one because of the airfare and totally unreliable weather you may face.............Allen..........

[DEERSLAM]

Allen,

 

I agree with you 100%, today is a whole different story.

With most of us having a family to support it is getting more and more difficult to do all of these different hunts.

 

couesnut,

 

I never said anything to dissrespect Jay or his accomplishments. Just stating the facts of todays rising cost of hunting away from home.

 

p.s. Allen I'm thinking about going to Kodiak Is. to get that sitka

I guess you're the only one on this forum to get a deer slam, you're the man

[billrquimby]

http://www.blacktailcountry.com/html/blkpage.htm

 

Interesting that this site claims that the mule deer is a hybrid between a blacktail buck and a whitetail doe. If that is true the 2 species should be WT and BT.

-Shiras

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Shiras, this is true. I have seen this debate by biologists for awhile now.

Wonder what Dr. Valerius Geist view is on this subject?

 

Bill Q., any take on this?

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Valerius Geist in his "Deer of the World" follows those who believe the mule deer orginated from blending whitet-tailed deer and a form of early black-tailed deer eons ago. He and other scientists, I believe, classify the present species as mule deer and include the blacktail as a subspecies. I have no idea why.

 

The magazine that listed eleven mule deer subspecies apparently was unaware that the buro and inyo mule deer are no longer considered valid subspecies by most experts. After three decades as an outdoor writer and 18 years as a magazine editor/publisher I can attest that you should not believe everything you read.

 

The differences between the 30 whitetails is considerable for record-keeping purposes. Antlers on whitetails from Florida, for example, could never compete with those from Alberta. I think SCI is on the right track by lumping the 30 North American subspecies into seven or more regional categories. It gives whitetail hunters in more states a chance to "make the book."

 

As for Jay Gates, I have never met him, but I do admire his hunting skills and devotion to deer hunting. I was under the impression that he owned a auto dealership and made paid appearances at sportsmen's shows. I could be wrong. I have a book in my collection that he wrote nearly 20 years ago.

 

Bill Q

[billrquimby]

"What I'm saying is if a good hunter that can shoot straight, had the money, time off work, some good tips on where to hunt, he or she could take a deer slam. I didn't say they had to be record book heads or even close, any mature animal is a trophy."

 

 

This in no way is meant to take anything away from Jay Gates' stellar accomplishments, but the statement above is absolutely correct. With $15,000 - $20,000 to pay to hunt with the best outfitters even a fat old man like me could collect a deer slam with respectable trophies in a couple of months.

 

(Anyone interested advancing the money to help prove my point?)

 

Unfortunately, after serving for years as editor of SCI's record books, I can honestly say that's probably true for most types of game animals except for the mountain game found above 14,000 or more feet in Asia. If you've got the bucks -- and the time -- there's an outfitter somewhere who will be happy to relieve you of your money and put you on the game you want no matter what it takes.

 

Bill

[DEERSLAM]

Well said Bill.

 

The magazine Fair Chase is published by the Boone & Crockett club. The author, Jim Heffelfinger, is a game specialist with the AZ. game & fish. The article is on the DNA differences in the mule/blktail subspecies and he does state that some experts believe the Inyo and Burro as distinct entities while others do not. It's a pretty good article.

 

I do believe in the SCI breakdown of the subspecies for the most part and am a proud member.

[billrquimby]

Well said Bill.

 

The magazine Fair Chase is published by the Boone & Crockett club. The author, Jim Heffelfinger, is a game specialist with the AZ. game & fish. The article is on the DNA differences in the mule/blktail subspecies and he does state that some experts believe the Inyo and Burro as distinct entities while others do not. It's a pretty good article. 

 

I do believe in the SCI breakdown of the subspecies for the most part and am a proud member.

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Mike: Jim Hefflelfinger is more than an AGFD game specialist. He's becoming known around the world as an up-and-coming deer specialist. I have never met him but his name keeps popping up in the strangest places in my own research for a book I may write someday on the world's deer.

 

I probably should take back what I said earlier about high elevation Asian mountain game being unavailable to mediocre hunters with deep pockets. I have heard too many horror stories of argali, ibex and white-lipped deer being hunted above 14,000 feet from helicopters. If you have the money and connections anything in hunting is possible, it seems.

 

There is at least one international big game hunter who goes everywhere in his personal 737 and takes his own helicopter pilot with him.

 

As for the mention someone made of the North American 27 in this thread, see my book "Royal Quest" about Prince Abdorreza of Iran. With help of the U.S. State Department and his friends Jack O'Connor, Elgin Gates and Herb Klein, Abdorreza spent two months in the late 1950s collecting North American trophies for himself and the Iranian National Museum. Armed with his custom.270, state and federal museum collecting permits and the best outfitters/guides his influential buddies could line up the Prince shot TWO EACH of our four sheep, plus TWO EACH of moose, caribou, grizzly and black bear, cougar, mule deer, Coues deer, white-tailed deer, javelina, pronghorn, bison, wild turkey, and I forget what else ... all within 60 DAYS!

 

A good number of the animals he took are in B&C and Rowland Ward record books.

 

Abdorreza's office and O'Connor spent God knows how much time setting up these hunts and HIH's complicated travel plans. I suspect if some high-level personage such as the King of Spain (who also is a hunter) wanted to duplicate or even surpass Abdorreza's feats it could be done today. Money and influence do count in big time big game hunting.

 

Bill Q

[Couesnut]

Sorry guys if I sound like a croutchity old SOB.

I"ve been working 20 hr days, 6 days a wk.

I am FRIED. Things have slowed a bit & after i sleep a week I'll be my pleasant self again... yuk, yuk, yuk.....

DH

[coueshunter]

Dave, dont get pleasant on me, I wont like you as well.........LOL........Allen........

[CamoJeep]

Holy cow guys, now you have me all messed up with the different deer I need. Before today I thought I just needed a Sitka to finish my slam and now I need like 20 more? lol I'm sticking with the 2 muleys, whitetail, Coues, Sitka, and Columbian. What about the Columbian Whitetail? They allow hunting for them in Oregon now.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=1831627&type=story

[DEERSLAM]

Holy cow guys, now you have me all messed up with the different deer I need. Before today I thought I just needed a Sitka to finish my slam and now I need like 20 more? lol I'm sticking with the 2 muleys, whitetail, Coues, Sitka, and Columbian. What about the Columbian Whitetail? They allow hunting for them in Oregon now.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=1831627&type=story

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CamoJeep,

You're on the right track, muley, whitetail, coues, sitka and columbian blktail.

You could add the columbian whitetail to your own personal deer slam but for the overall deer slam there are just to very few tags issued to even consider it.

 

I did put in for that tag this year in OR. but as most of my other draws went came up empty. I will keep trying, I have 5 or 6 points for deer in OR.

 

Sounds like some of us CW members need to put together a Sitka blacktail hunt, I'd be in for sure. Kodiak Island anyone

[coueshunter]

I would be very interested in going back to Kodiak. The outfit I used as a base-camp (really a boat) was called a transporter where they picked me up in Kodiak and went around the island to Uganik Isl. They would take me to shore each day by Zodiac boat and I would hunt all day then radio back to be picked up. I need to get a bigger Sitka and would love to plan a trip in the next two-three years. I paid something like 1500.00 for this boat service which included meals, lodging and back three years ago that was the best deal I could find. I still have their info if anyone is interested.........Allen.......P.S. I would love to hunt a columbian whitetail, they were on the protected list when I still lived in Washington state. Would love to add that to my list.........AT.......

[DEERSLAM]

I would be very interested in going back to Kodiak.  The outfit I used as a base-camp  (really a boat) was called a transporter where they picked me up in Kodiak and went around the island to Uganik Isl.  They would take me to shore each day by Zodiac boat and I would hunt all day then radio back to be picked up.  I need to get a bigger Sitka and would love to plan a trip in the next two-three years.  I paid something like 1500.00 for this boat service which included meals, lodging and back three years ago that was the best deal I could find.  I still have their info if anyone is interested.........Allen.......P.S.  I would love to hunt a columbian whitetail, they were on the protected list when I still lived in Washington state.  Would love to add that to my list.........AT.......

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Allen,

 

That is about the same time frame I was looking at. I've always had a hard time finding someone to hunt Sitka's with, everyone I know wants to shoot bigger critters. I would be so cool to put a group together and book a whole boat of just CW members.

I'm serious about this boys and girls, could we get a group together and do Kodiak

[coueshunter]

I normally dont say anything unless I mean it, the only issue I will have is saving up the cash. When I went last time it was alot of cash because of the airfare then the 1500 for the transporter. I have quite a bit of info on how we could use an floatplane to fly us out to a cannery and use it as a base camp that could save quite a bit of money but not reduce our overall hunt quality. Anyway, if people think they might want to do this, and not just window shop, I will provide what info I have. Also, there is the road system that can be hunted around Kodiak proper so maybe a two day hunt using Kodiak as the base then on to the cannery if the road system areas are not producing..........AT.........

[DEERSLAM]

Allen,

 

Cash, that's why the 2-3 years out works for me.

 

Window shoppin I aint. I need and want to do Kodiak. My only preferance would be a later hunt, say mid Nov. I think the cape is as important, to me, as the antlers. In my opinion they are the prettiest deer we have in North America.

 

Email or pm me.

 

I know some of you others may be interested. Lets work out a CW adventure to Alaska