Long range rigs

[catclaw]

i only plan on shooting one or two times when i'm hunting anyway. like i say, i killed a purty nice bull at a shade over 900 yards with it last year. one shot. i can shoot 1/2" groups at 200 yards all day long. inside an inch at 300. i do have to wait for the barrel to cool after about 3 rounds. this ain't a target rig. it's strictly for killin'. google on the name Carlos Hathcock. see what he did with a stock 700 adl '06 and a redfield scope bought off the shelf in a sporting goods store in saigon. last i read they put his rifle in a museum. most target shooters have fat contour barrels because they don't get hot as fast. but once they get hot, they take a lot longer to cool. when they get real hot they pour cold water on em and start over. but one of the main reasons is they don't have to spend a buncha time and money doing machine work to turn the barrel down. thread it, chamber it, spin it on. and stuff like putting grooves in the barrel doesn't do much other than take a little weight off. does next to nothing as far as cooling. looks kinda cool. if folks wanna pack big fat barrels around, that's fine. i have several. i have a literall needle driver .22/.250. i seldom take it after coyotes. too heavy to catch up with runnin' coyotes with it on a regular basis. but that ain't a long range deal. 4 to 500 yards is all i can do regular on runnin' coyotes. my preference is a lighter rifle. with a muzzlebrake. that shoots really, really good. but then again, since Carlos died, i'm about the best shot there is too, so i have an unfair advantage. there's lotsa ways to skin a cat. i prefer the lightest catskinner i dan get. Lark.

 

Lark, you are obviously one of the best shooters in the entire world and have the most accurate rifles ever crafted. I can't believe I overlooked you name in the match reports the past 30 years. Wow- just think how many Wimbledon trophies you could have had. Carlos only had one! 1/2" groups at 200 yards with a sporter rifle is a wet dream my friend!! I quit reading at that point...

 

Just think of all those stupid snipers all over the world and gunmakers that are needlessly shooting and making heavy barreled rifles. Wow- they could be shooting ultra light contours since most LE sniper situations only require ONE shot.

[Couzer]

Catclaw what kind of rifle did you build? Just curious because I need to get one built. What scope, caliber,,, so forth. PM me if you want

 

Thanks

[.270]

whatever catclaw. this ol' boy can shoot and i have a helluva rifle. i load more ammo in a year than a lotta hard core shooters load in 10. my rifle ain't a "sporter". it is one accurate sob with the best barrel, with a slightly heavier than factory taper, money can buy, installed and set up by one of the best gunsmiths there is and topped with an extremely expensive scope that is set up to shoot long ranges and with ammo loaded by someone that really knows how to make it fit the gun. Lark.

[coues7]

"best barrel" really? I hadn't heard of their being a best barrel.....you must have stumbled across something amazing that the rest of us have been missing.

 

"one of the best gunsmiths there is and topped with an extremely expensive scope that is set up to shoot long ranges"....Boy Lark you are just full of it today aren't you. I guess we need to know who your smith is too. A good majority of shooters can't even shoot their "custom" rigs to the potential the rifle has.....I tend to doubt with you statements and the running off of your mouth that you can either.

 

I find it funny the group of people on this website that get all bent out of shape when someone like 308Nut who has been shooting long range for much longer than most on this site have even heard of long range shooting brings up points on a specific question being asked. So Lark when you get over being an armchair warrior why don't you go ahead and post specs, groups and who/what all your "best" is so we can really see.

[.270]

ok, all i have is the same barrel that the marine and army snipers use. all m-40's are fitted with one now. schnieder. oh yeah, a guy named tubb really likes em too. but what does he know? ever hear of him? you probly have his number on speed dial. so if there's a better one, who makes it? i'm sure the military and david tubb's competitors would like to know about it. heck, i wanna know. you want the name of the smith, send me an pm. if you're a shooter you probly know him. if you ain't, you probly don't. but trust me, he's real good. and again, i can shoot. so can lotsa folks. and with today's rifles and equipment, it's a fairly easy thing to do. just takes time, money and commitment. i could shoot before, just using experience and kentucky windage. now that i have a laser range finder, a neat rifle and a scope that tells me where to aim, i'm real good. after i get my angle indicator mounted and get me a cheat sheet for it, they might outlaw me. it's pretty easy to tell that 308 and a lotta other guys are shooters. but because i don't post specs and groups, i can't? camp perry accuracy and shooting a buck across a canyon are completely different things. the only tangible is that you use a rifle. i shoot bucks across canyons. Lark.

 

p.s. .308nut, why to you use a .308? just wondering. seems like you'd use one of the flatter shooting .30's. i mean i know all about the accuracy of the round and all that. just wondering.

[308Nut]

p.s. .308nut, why to you use a .308? just wondering. seems like you'd use one of the flatter shooting .30's. i mean i know all about the accuracy of the round and all that. just wondering.

 

Lark,

 

I use the 308 for simple reasons. 1st and foremost it's increadible accuracy. 2nd, I like to shoot ALOT. I go on binges where I will go to the range 6 or 7 times a week and then I might go 3 months where I only have gone 3-5 times in 3 months. The point is that since I like to shoot that much I require good loooooong barrel life. The 308 offers me both. After owing not one but 2 300 RUM barrels and burning them both out in short order I have scrapped the idea of flat shooting cartridges. With the advent of good laser rangefinders, I could care less about flat trajectories. What I do care about is extreeme accuracy and windage. Flat and wind drift dont always go hand in hand. Lazz inc. always bragged about how fast and flat his 308 warbird shoots and he is right, it is super fast and flat. However the wind drift of the light bullets he uses SUCK for wind drift. I have a 308 load with a super high BC (.648) that is 900 FPS slower than the 308 warbird yet has more energy AND less wind drift at 1000 yards despite dropping alot more. I also use a 338 Edge for serious long range hunting. This one offers the same trajectory as my 308 but with bullet BC's approaching .800, the windgae is rediculously small and hits like a pile driver. These two calibers work very well for me. Both my 308 and 338 have the same make and model stocks and similar weights so they feel the same on the firing line. I do most of my practice and hunting with the 308 and when I have a really large heavy or very tough target such as elk, moose and mountain goats that need 86ing, the 338 is called upon for duty and does it's job very well. When there is a sheep or deer that need lead treatment at potential distances of 1/4 to 1/2 mile, the 308 goes with me. Since most of the critters I chase around are sheep, deer, black bears, caribou and wolves, I spend most of my hunting time with the 308 in hand. It is my most trusted rifle and I am EXTREEMLY profficient, confident and comfortable with it. Besides, everything about it is designed for speed. I dont get traditional velocities out of it. I get ALOT more.

 

Hope that helps!

[coues7]

Can you post some specs on what loads you are using and specs on your 308 rifle?

 

Scott

[firstcoueswas80]

p.s. .308nut, why to you use a .308? just wondering. seems like you'd use one of the flatter shooting .30's. i mean i know all about the accuracy of the round and all that. just wondering.

 

Lark,

 

I use the 308 for simple reasons. 1st and foremost it's increadible accuracy. 2nd, I like to shoot ALOT. I go on binges where I will go to the range 6 or 7 times a week and then I might go 3 months where I only have gone 3-5 times in 3 months. The point is that since I like to shoot that much I require good loooooong barrel life. The 308 offers me both. After owing not one but 2 300 RUM barrels and burning them both out in short order I have scrapped the idea of flat shooting cartridges. With the advent of good laser rangefinders, I could care less about flat trajectories. What I do care about is extreeme accuracy and windage. Flat and wind drift dont always go hand in hand. Lazz inc. always bragged about how fast and flat his 308 warbird shoots and he is right, it is super fast and flat. However the wind drift of the light bullets he uses SUCK for wind drift. I have a 308 load with a super high BC (.648) that is 900 FPS slower than the 308 warbird yet has more energy AND less wind drift at 1000 yards despite dropping alot more. I also use a 338 Edge for serious long range hunting. This one offers the same trajectory as my 308 but with bullet BC's approaching .800, the windgae is rediculously small and hits like a pile driver. These two calibers work very well for me. Both my 308 and 338 have the same make and model stocks and similar weights so they feel the same on the firing line. I do most of my practice and hunting with the 308 and when I have a really large heavy or very tough target such as elk, moose and mountain goats that need 86ing, the 338 is called upon for duty and does it's job very well. When there is a sheep or deer that need lead treatment at potential distances of 1/4 to 1/2 mile, the 308 goes with me. Since most of the critters I chase around are sheep, deer, black bears, caribou and wolves, I spend most of my hunting time with the 308 in hand. It is my most trusted rifle and I am EXTREEMLY profficient, confident and comfortable with it. Besides, everything about it is designed for speed. I dont get traditional velocities out of it. I get ALOT more.

 

Hope that helps!

 

 

I remember the story of you shooing at something like 85+ degress STRAIGHT DOWNHILL.... I quit questioning whether or not you could shoot after that!

 

That made my 625 one shot one kill on a coyote with my 270wsm seem easy!

[308Nut]

Can you post some specs on what loads you are using and specs on your 308 rifle?

 

Scott

 

Rifle specs are:

 

Remington 700 completely trued, squared and smoothed.

High speed lightweight firing pin.

Wyatt extended box magazine (for seating bullets out further for max powder capacity).

Badger bolt knob.

Heavy recoil lug.

Hart 26" 11x barrel in Sendero contour fluted.

Match chamber.

Pillar bedded McMillan HTG (M40A1) stock with integral accesories rail.

Nightforce 40 MOA 1 peice base (bedded to action).

Badger rings hand lapped.

Nightforce NXS 5.5-22x50mm MLR reticle, Mil turrets + zero stop scope.

Sniper tools angle cosine indicator.

Anti cant device.

 

My goto loads are:

 

1: 178 AMAX over 45 grains of VV N-540 @ 2753 FPS. (Solid .3 MOA)

 

2: 168 AMAX over 46 grains of VV N-540 @ 2830 FPS. (Solid .3-.4 MOA)

 

3: 190 SMK over 44 grains of RL-15 @ 2690 FPS. (Solid .3 MOA)

 

4: 200 SGK over (I forget) grains of VV N-550 @ 2650 FPS. (Solid .5-.6 MOA)

 

5: 208 AMAX over 48.0 grains of VV-N550 @ 2675 FPS. (.75 MOA)

 

I strongly recommend to readers that you do as I did and start alot lower and work up to a max load and work backwards from there. DONT start at the charges above.

[firstcoueswas80]

I am a firm believer that the scope base being bedded to the action helps alot. My base on my .270 wsm and .257 wby is bedded to the action and I think that helps. Maybe not a bunch, but I do think it helps.

[308Nut]

I am a firm believer that the scope base being bedded to the action helps alot. My base on my .270 wsm and .257 wby is bedded to the action and I think that helps. Maybe not a bunch, but I do think it helps.

 

Speaking of helping, when I had this 308 put together it wouldnt shoot worth a crap. I fired over 900 rounds (as per what was left of a brick of 1000 primers) trying every concievable powder, bullet weight, bullet type, primers, charge weights and combinations etc.....only to find that it was the rear portion of the action was about 14 thousanths of an inch out of wack in relation to the front which when the base was torqued to the action wouldnt allow the rings to be perfectly aligned which caused stress on both the scope main tube but also the action. Stress ANYWHERE in a rifle will not allow it to shoot worth a darn. Once I bedded the base so that it was mounted perfectly straight, the accuracy and consistency problems were solved 100% It was so bad that one day at the range during development, it shot a 4" group at 100 yards. This was the ultimate of depressing. Since then the very worst loads during development were 1 MOA with sweet spots in the .250 to .350 MOA. I am glad didnt wrap it around a birch tree like I wanted to many times.

 

[308Nut]

I remember the story of you shooing at something like 85+ degress STRAIGHT DOWNHILL.... I quit questioning whether or not you could shoot after that!

 

That made my 625 one shot one kill on a coyote with my 270wsm seem easy!

 

 

 

 

Actually it was (I forget exactally) somewhere around 40-45 degrees. 625 yards on a small target such as a coyote is nothing to sneeze at. That is some great shooting.

 

85 degrees would have been a truely phenominal shot. Another buddy last year near the end of the season could have taken a legitiment 85+ degree shot but decided to pass as he wanted a bigger ram. I would have had to have held his feet and he would have had to have tied a lanyard to the rifle. Even at only 150 yards, it would have been a super tough shot at best. It would have been cool but tough none the less.

[hunterdude]

Man I will be glad when hunting season starts so we have something else to talk about!!!

[catclaw]

Catclaw what kind of rifle did you build? Just curious because I need to get one built. What scope, caliber,,, so forth. PM me if you want

 

Thanks

 

My latest creation is a Phoenix Machine/Defiance Machine full round action with long barrel tenon, Mark Chanlynn 1-8.5" twist chambered in 6.5-284. The reamer is ground to my specs to use 130 Norma Diamond Line bullets and 130 Bergers if needed. Bullets are seated out as it is a long action. Has Williams bottom metal, McMillan Remington "Hunter" pattern stock. It is pillar bedded with stainless steel pillars and Devcon. Scope rail is Seekins Precision 20 MOA which is bedded and glued to the action and set up with 8-40 screws instead of the typical 6-48s. Rings are Leupold Weaver style. Scope is Bushnell 4.5-30 6500 Elite series.

 

If I did it over, I would have gone with an ADL style trigger guard in lieu of the Williams bottom metal and permanently attached a Bogen tripod adapter plate for my 701HDV tripod head so I could eliminate the gun claw.

 

If I could have found an action that would cycle the WSMs to my liking, I would have built a 7mmWSM and shot 180 Bergers. I couldn't find anything that satisfied my reliability needs for feeding in a custom action. There may be one now though.

 

Both of these are barrel burners but who cares. When it wears out, I will put a new one on!

 

Here is a photo that shows it before metal finish.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mason a]

Great thread , I think everyone had lots of good information on this topic, I too am wanting to build a great long range rifle , Actually I want someone else to build it and i will just buy it . I want a true 1000 yard elk gun ,but i will be using it more for coues than elk. I'm looking to spend between 5000-6000$ total. It seems like I get a different answer from everyone I talk with.

My first choice would be the 338 edge (canyon rifle pack)

2nd the best of the west custom gun in a 300 win mag

3rd choice have a local gun smith build it, mount a nightforce nsx scope,sight it in and work up the best loads for my hunting style. Is that to much to ask?

I don't have the time or knowledge to build the ultimate long range gun, Thats why I'm looking for a complete package ,where the gun has been sighted in.Also I would like them to work up the best load for that actual gun. I can do all the reloading once they have worked up the load. I worked up the load for my 30-06 and that was a lot of work ,but i'm glad i did . I almost feel like a lazy butt wanting a gunsmith to do all the work for me. I only shoot 100-200 rounds a year at long distances to prepare and build my confidence, And thats still probably not enough, but I, like lark feel like i'm a good shot, In fact I believe anybody that wants to shoot long range,better feel like they are a good shot.

Anyhow back to my point, What are some of your thoughts? Can a local gunsmith build what I'm looking for , or Is the 338 edge the best bang for the buck, and let Shawn at defensive edge build the gun , sight it in and work the best load for that gun?

By the way a heavy gun does not bother me, at least not yet!