Arizona Big 10?

[Outdoor Writer]

That makes sense. Was it that pig hunting jamboree deal that was held over by Safford, I think?

 

 

No. If I recall, they hunted on the White Mt. Res. when Ted was in town for a concert. They went to the same area we always went for my annual "Steenkin Peeg Hunt." George, Corky and a friend or two always came along to help me out. They did the guiding and I served as camp mom, head chef and chief bottle washer.

 

We did it for 10-12 years running when I was operating the Outdoors Forum on Compuserve. Normally, there were 6-10 hunters from all over the country, many of whom attended several of the SPHs.

 

One year, we had a 15-yr. kid named Adam from Wisconsin in camp who had never even been away from home, much less on an extended camping/hunting trip. He always hung around the Outdoors Forum to learn and chat. So I told him if he could get his parents' permission and pay his own airfare, I would take care of his license and all the rest. It goes without saying, he had the time of his life. He's already graduated from college and still keeps in contact with me through our Hunting Forum on the Outdoor Network.

 

Here's a photo of him (far right) and the other guys with their javelina for that day. Corky is 2nd from left.

 

 

All our hunters on that year's SPH around the campfire. States represented are: WI, CT, MN, CO, AZ, MD and NY.

 

[COOSEFAN]

Awesome thread guys, some very cool info, stories and history here!

 

I remember when I was a kid I wanted to be the youngest to take the Big 10. I had most of them early on but then I ate a couple archery Antelope tags and it wasn't until 7 years ago when I finally took my first Antelope. That Antelope was #6 of the 10 with archery equipment and my #8 of the 10 overall for me. Like everyone else, I now grow old waiting for my Sheep and Buffalo tag.

[Snapshot]

As of now, I only have 6 of the Arizona 10.

 

I am not holding my breath for a sheep tag!

 

I never put in for Buffalo.

 

I will get my Antelope!

 

I will get a mountain lion one of these days!

 

So all in all, I will probably end up with 8 out of 10 by the time I can no longer hunt!

[Outdoor Writer]

So all in all, I will probably end up with 8 out of 10 by the time I can no longer hunt!

 

 

And that's about it, too!

 

As I mentioned earlier, I have gone about 35 years with my 8 of 10 already. And even if I get drawn for sheep now, I have to wonder if I can get up a mountain to shoot one.

 

Jim,

 

At least you're still young enough to tough it out a while.

[Outdoor Writer]

I mentioned Adam James in an earlier reply. Here's the last message Adam posted to me in 2008:

 

Tony,

 

Yeah, I got a job with the Corps of Engineers. I graduated with degrees in Forestry and Political Science. I worked last summer as a Forest Technician for them up living in WI with an office in MN. There were no Forestry openings, so I got hired to a Ranger opening on Lake Cumberland. Today is actually my first day, hope it all goes well. I would hunt Javelina if they were around here, but I gotta go with what I can.

 

And one from 2007:

 

Tony,

 

I just figured I'd come on here and write you a little update on what is going on in my life, at least career-wise. I have one more semester of college to complete my forestry degree from the University of Wisconsin-Stevens Point (nations largest undergrad natural resources school) I worked last summer for the US Forest Service in Northern Wisconsin, and really enjoyed it, I am not limiting myself to WI, although this is where I wish to end up I am willng to move for a while. However, this summer I gained a position with the US Army Corps of Engineers doing forestry work and this position will lead to a permanent position upon graduation in December. The current position is at the location I hope to end up eventually, working forestry on USACE lands along and on the islands of the Mississippi right near where I grew up. I am actually able to live in my old bedroom again for the summer.

 

My Air Force Reserve stuff is going fine. I go TDY alot, I have been in 35 states and about 5 countries with that in the last 3 years or so, it has been nice to see the country.

 

I hope all is well with you. I was just looking through, I don't see many of those from the SPH on here, if you stay in touch with them please forward on that I am doing well and continue to pray for them.

[billrquimby]

Tony:

 

You are to commended for showing Adam -- and the many other young people I know you have introduced to hunting -- what our sport is really like.

 

Not many people would willingly take on the responsibility and all the financial risks that go with it.

 

It must be highly gratifying to receive letters such as those Adam sent you.

 

Bill Quimby

[lefty]

interesting topic guys. thought i'd chime in. i have my big 10. i got it when i was 22,but i could've got it when i was 15. i just couldn't get that mountain lion! as we all know, 95% of it is drawing the tags. when i was 14 i got drawn for buffalo and bighorn in the same year. i am now 34 and have 19 bonus points for sheep. do you think with that many points that i'll ever draw for rocky mtn sheep?

[billrquimby]

As of now, I only have 6 of the Arizona 10. I am not holding my breath for a sheep tag! I never put in for Buffalo. I will get my Antelope! I will get a mountain lion one of these days! So all in all, I will probably end up with 8 out of 10 by the time I can no longer hunt!

 

 

Snapshot:

 

Don't discount the Houserock bison hunt. I know two good hunters who couldn't fill their tags up there. Raymond Ranch is another story.

 

Bill Quimby

 

[AZcoues_addict]

I think I'm in the same boat as Jim. I wanted to take my Big 10 at a young age and harvested 8 of 10 before 30 years of age, but will probably now grow old waiting for a sheep or buffalo tag. I've taken 5 of 10 archery, and hoping to increase the archery count this year. Good information here, thanks for all the info Bill and Tony.

[Outdoor Writer]

interesting topic guys. thought I'd chime in. i have my big 10. i got it when i was 22,but i could've got it when i was 15. i just couldn't get that mountain lion! as we all know, 95% of it is drawing the tags. when i was 14 i got drawn for buffalo and bighorn in the same year. i am now 34 and have 19 bonus points for sheep. do you think with that many points that I'll ever draw for rocky mtn sheep?

 

 

You're the kinda guy us older dudes love to hate!!!

 

Seriously now...congrats. That was a great accomplishment. You did good.

 

I also now have 19 points for sheep, but I'm still trying to get a desert permit.

 

****

 

Bill,

 

Adam was a good kid. He dad was quite cautious, too. Before he would let Adam come to AZ, he called me to chat a bit. I assured him I wasn't a child molester and gave him lots of references to past SPH hunters to check out. Adam also had an uncle in PHX who met him at the airport so he could meet me and make sure we connected.

 

The only glitch was Adam's inexperience with camping out. He assumed every place in AZ was hot, even in January. So he brought one of those cheapie sleeping bags that has cotton batting for insulation. He probably paid all of $9.95 for it at Wal-Mart. Despite having a wood-burning stove in the big sleeping tent, he froze his butt off the first night. Fortunately, I had an extra Qualofill bag with me for him to use for the rest of the hunt.

[History buff]

I hope somebody might shed some light on the Arizona Big 10 Award. I have heard rumors but can't find any good literature on the subject. I am curious what agency or group gives the award and how I can find a list of folks who have won it in the past. Please fill me in if you have any details. This would be a great thing for my 1 year old nephew to start thinking about.

Thanks....

 

I spent all summer looking through Arizona Wildlife Sportsman down at the AZ historical society library trying to learn as much as possible about Curtis Jackson Prock as a jaguar hunting guide. Big ten was of interest because most of the first 20 guys that finished their Big 10 got their lion or bear on Prock-guided hunts up around the Young-Heber area. Included in that 20 was one woman but she did not hire Prock. Prock killed over 100 lions himself for the bounties, starting in 1949, and was responsible for more than 200 lion kills by 1958.

 

I can tell you more when I'm not physically separated from my notes by 40 miles, some time next week perhaps. For now, here is what I have in my computer--

 

October 1957 On a Prock-guided hunt, John Nutt, a major Eloy cotton farmer, kills a mountain lion and becomes the first licensed sportsman to have taken each of “Arizona’s Big Ten” big game animals. I believe John Nutt's wife later also achieved the Big 10.

 

Unknown date prior to January 1959-

“…Curtis Prock ‘guided John Nutt to the Arizona black bear record for dressed weight, 350 lbs.’ By summer of 1960, Nutt will kill 104 big game animals including three jaguars and each of the four species of North American bears.

 

 

January 1958 On a Prock-guided hunt near Young, AZ, Ed Scarla kills a tom cougar with a score of 15 6/16 and 154 lb. dressed weight. As of June 1963, the animal is tied at 4th place in the all time North American records and ranks as the largest cougar taken in Arizona. Scarla later (probably 1963) becomes the 18th hunter to complete Arizona’s Big Ten and the second person to complete a Grand Slam of North American mountain sheep. Scarla was the Vice President of Salad Bowl Farms, Vice President of A.J. Bayless Markets and President of Scarla and Son Produce Company. Together the three firms employed 2,750 persons.

 

February 1958 Prock guides Duane Holloway of Tichnor, AR, Ben Pearson (of the Pearson Archery Company) of Pine Bluff, AR and Dr. James L. Smith, of Little Rock, Arkansas, on a bow-hunt where three mountain lions are killed in one day. Smith’s lion ranks in the top 15 in the new world record book.

 

Summer 1958 Prock hunts mountain lions with Jeff Seivers in Chevelon Canyon, north 20-30 miles cross-country from Young, AZ. Seivers is a leading Phoenix taxidermist and sometimes hunting guide who advertises his taxidermy services regularly in Arizona Wildlife-Sportsman. Seivers later became the 13th hunter to claim the Big Ten.

 

October 24, 1959 On a Prock-guided hunt, Bob Housholder finally kills his tenth Big Ten trophy–a 300-lb black bear with a skin measuring 7.5 feet, considered to be “about as big as they come” in Arizona. This was Housholder’s ninth attempt and 27th day of bear hunting.

 

 

May 1962 On a Prock-guided hunt George Shaar kills a cougar and achieves the Big 10 award.

 

Spring 1962 On a Prock-guided hunt, Lyle Underdown kills a cougar (his 9th kill of the Big Ten) with bow and arrow “in the Four Peaks area.” On a Prock-guided hunt, Fred Kelly kills a mountain lion near Sunflower .

 

August 21, 1962 On a Prock-guided hunt, Tony Stromei kills a cougar “around the headwaters of Canyon Creek” northeast of Young, and becomes the 10th person to claim the Big Ten.

 

September 1962 On a Prock-guided hunt, Fred Kelly kills his 39th big game kill, a black bear on the San Carlos Indian Reservation, becomes 11th hunter to complete the Arizona Big Ten and holds the record for the shortest time to complete it, 15 years.

 

November 1962 On a Prock-guided hunt, Perry Chisum of Phoenix kills a mountain lion, making him the 17th hunter to complete the Arizona Big Ten.

 

I know Terry Penrod also completed the Big 10, although I am not sure when, and also killed a female jaguar in September 1963 when out varmint calling. He has some other big hunting achievements to his name but I don't recall what they are. I question the origin of the jaguar but not the legitimacy of the hunt. I have strong evidence to suggest it probably had been originally foreign born but captured and turned loose into the White Mtns. several months earlier.

 

Like I said, more names and dates next week.

 

 

[Outdoor Writer]

No doubt many of those cats were tainted since Prock was a crook. I recalled when they nailed his butt way back when.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1088195/1/index.htm

[200"mulie]

I actually watched that video again with Brian Ham and Cindi Richardson and Brian actually has the Big 11!!! he shot a goulds turkey by sierra vista making that 11 different species with a bow.

[Pistolero35743]

Curtis Jackson Prock and assistant Denver Hammond conducted a "canned" hunt with a zoo purchased Jaguar near Apache Creek, New Mexico. Source: Investigation conducted By New Mexico Wardens and USFWS.

[billrquimby]

I actually watched that video again with Brian Ham and Cindi Richardson and Brian actually has the Big 11!!! he shot a goulds turkey by sierra vista making that 11 different species with a bow.

 

 

Aaaaargh! By that way of thinking, I also would have a "Big 11," because I've taken both desert and Rocky Mountain mule deer in addition to the nine other Arizona big game animals.

 

But, once again, there are only ten SPECIES classified as big game in Arizona, although several species here have multiple subspecies. A Big 10 hunter could collect a Rio Grande turkey in addition to his/her Merriams and Goulds turkeys and would not have taken 12 species. He/she still would have taken only one species of turkey and ten species in all.

 

The same with bighorns. We have Rocky Mountain and desert sheep, but they are merely subspecies of just one species, Ovis canadensis or bighorn. The same with mule deer, black bear, mountain lion, etc., etc. Once again, there are only ten species of big game in Arizona. Just ten species ....

 

Here is what the dictionary says about subspecies:

 

"A taxonomic category that ranks below species, usually a fairly permanent geographically isolated race. Subspecies are designated by a Latin trinomial,"

 

For example, let's break down the scientific name for our Coues deer, Odocoileus virgiianus couesi.

 

Odocoileus The first word denotes the genus or family of the animal, in this case: the family of North American deer that also includes mule deer.

virginianus The second word is the species name, in this case: white-tailed deer (mule deer are a different species and have a different binomial or scientific name).

couesi The third word (trinomial) is the subspecies name, in this case, the race of whitetail that we call the Coues white-tailed deer.

 

Once again, there are only ten SPECIES of big game animals in Arizona, but some species also have multiple SUBSPECIES. I haven't done the research, but if all the subspecies of all the species in Arizona were counted, we might need a Big 15 or 16 Award.

 

If you are still with me, you also need to know that the words species and subspecies are both singular and plural and always refer to animals and plants. The word "specie" always refers to coins.

 

You also may be interested in knowing that many scientists do not recognize subspecies.

 

Bill Quimby