A statement on archery elk opening dates from the ABA

[AZMSK]

The ABA had been asked to concisder a reccommendation to move the archery elk season to a date where it would always fall late in September. Following is the decision that was made by the Board of Directors, including data to show reasoning why they made the decision they did and an explanatoin of what they feel the affect might be if the change would be implemented.

Please take a few moments and go to the ABA website to read more and look at the data supporting their decisoin.

http://www.arizonabowhunters.org/

 

Thank you,

ABA Board of Directors

 

Mike Kentera

Region two Director

Flagstaff/Williams

[CouesWhitetail]

Thank you for coming and posting that! People were just debating that recently on here, as you probably are aware.

 

Amanda

 

[youngbuck]

Good to hear, this past year elk hunt fell to early. Its hard to guess statewide when what happens but ive never started an archery elk hunt with the rut in full swing opening morning

[Red Rabbit]

The ABA position statement was posted earlier on TAH.com This was my response:

 

"In my opinion, G&F could move the start back so the break between archery and early firearm seasons is around Oct 1, which is close the estrus peak. Based on calving and gestation period, I have figured that the breeding time is around October 1-5. If moved back, both groups have hunts near the estrus peak.

 

There is not a need to move the firearms ahead of the archery, as ABA has alluded to and has been mentioned as a possibility at a recent commissioner meeting. G&F has demonstrated that there is the week to move the seasons back when they put in the late October rifle elk this year. This late October rifle elk hunt in certain units is said to be temporary until the bull:cow ratio is adjusted. Also to further show a week is available, G&F has admitted that they moved the archery hunts forward a week in 2007; this shift was from the direction of the 2007 Flagstaff commissioner meeting.

 

So no, I do not agree with the ABA directors' position. I feel this is the position of the directors, not necessarily their membership.

 

If there is not a correlation between start date and success, why the opposition? The data ABA shows does show a strong correlation between rainfall and success. This was a prior known. Does this success relate to the number of water hole hunters that have more water to sit in a wet year? Elk tend to be spread out more in a wet year, thus offering more places to sit water also and spread out hunters. Having hunters spread would cause fewer interactions/altercations and lead to a better hunt experience.

 

Moving the seasons back and maintaining the archery first/firearm second will benefit the bowhunters who call since the elk will likely be more vocal as the estrus peak nears, as opposed to during a Sept 10 start. This would be a plus for archers both calling and sitting water as hearing elk bugle during the hunt increases the hunt satisfaction.

 

Doug"

 

You can ask yourself these questions:

1)Would I rather hunt elk from Sept 10-23 (like this year before the rut peak) or one week later from Sept 17-30 (and have the end of the hunt occur during peak estrus)?

2)Would I like to call for silent bulls, or have more bugling response?

 

 

[Hunterdan]

Good info Doug. I agree completely.

[bobbyo]

I agree that the more bugles you hear increases the quality of the hunt, but if it increases the success rate will it not lower the amount of tags available? Less tags means less chance of drawing. Which means no bugles for tagless people. In essence to promote this change is also promoting less September archery tags. I think drawing one of the tags is hard enough and harvesting an elk with a bow in September is easy enough. Do we really need to make September archery elk hunting any easier? It is "hunting". I would be against this proposal.

Bob

Ps. I guess I agree with the ABA board also. I finally read the last page. Duh.

[Str8Shot]

I took back up archery last year and will after a couple years be putting in for the archery elk over rifle but come on I am sick of the issues with the dates and archers .... you have two weeks to get it done and pre rut can be just as productive as prime rut .... fewer issues with cows busting you and still plenty of activity .... But after hearing year after year on these forums archers feeling they deserve it better than the rest I say give it to them but only give them 1 week to get it done and add a second 1 week hunt for more archery tags or rifle tags ... I think the data shows the date has little to do with overall success (may not have been as easy but the hunters got it done) .... temps are only 3 - 7 degrees average lower on the highs and not many consecutive nights below the high 30's even at the end of September.... Don't put in if you don't like it ....I am sure many people waiting years to even get drawn the first time would be happy to take your place no matter the date ... BUT MAN CAN ALL THE ARCHERS QUIT CRYING ABOUT IT .... Go hunt ... hunt hard and enjoy the experience

 

 

Seems like what you all want is 1 week in the peak of the pre rut flowing into early rut to scout and nail down patterns then two weeks to pick and choose ..... and at the same time want better draw odds and no loss of tags to archers, guess while we are at it we can find you some ocean side property in Arizona !

[coues krazy]

I took back up archery last year and will after a couple years be putting in for the archery elk over rifle but come on I am sick of the issues with the dates and archers .... you have two weeks to get it done and pre rut can be just as productive as prime rut .... fewer issues with cows busting you and still plenty of activity .... But after hearing year after year on these forums archers feeling they deserve it better than the rest I say give it to them but only give them 1 week to get it done and add a second 1 week hunt for more archery tags or rifle tags ... I think the data shows the date has little to do with overall success (may not have been as easy but the hunters got it done) .... temps are only 3 - 7 degrees average lower on the highs and not many consecutive nights below the high 30's even at the end of September.... Don't put in if you don't like it ....I am sure many people waiting years to even get drawn the first time would be happy to take your place no matter the date ... BUT MAN CAN ALL THE ARCHERS QUIT CRYING ABOUT IT .... Go hunt ... hunt hard and enjoy the experience

 

 

Seems like what you all want is 1 week in the peak of the pre rut flowing into early rut to scout and nail down patterns then two weeks to pick and choose ..... and at the same time want better draw odds and no loss of tags to archers, guess while we are at it we can find you some ocean side property in Arizona !

[HUNTAZ]

archery hunting is and always be tougher than rifle!! why give the best(easiest) part of the rut to the rifle hunters? As tough as it is to get drawn for a archery bull tag it would be nice to have a hunt where the bulls are rutten hard and screamen like crazy!!

[DubTee]

I take it the ABA was against moving the dates back, I cannot get the data to load from their website, so what was the reasoning behind their stance? What about moving the opener of the bow hunt to the 15th every year? Archers get some pre rut and rut, rifle season can still come the day after and the bulls will still be going strong. A 15th opener would protect against years like this one and last where it was early. Plenty of time to let things cool before the cow rifle seasons. I know that goes away from the traditional friday opener and thursday close for most years, but does that really matter?

[Red Rabbit]

If the archery elk were to begin on the 3rd Friday, the season would run from Sep 15-29 at the earliest, and from Sep 21-Oct 4 at the latest. Early Firearms would start dates ranging from Sep 30 to Oct 5, still during the week of peak estrus. I believe that a G&F biologist said the peak estrus occurs during that first week of October.

 

Seems the archers who like calling for silent, lone bulls before the rut starts cranking would still have the early portion of the season, and those that enjoy more bugling would have the latter. Another benefit to a later start would be to be a week later form the end of the monsoons, and have fewer puddles to distract elk (ie-more concentration on permanent water and major wallows), and having evening hunts rained out.

 

Doug~RR

[buffhunter]

All I know is when I was a kid first elk hunting almost 20 years ago. Every morning I woke up in elk country there was frost or hard ice on the ground in the middle of September. I havent seen any of that in the last 10 years all of Sept. IMO that has a lot to do with the late ruts. I dont think the hunt dates have as much to do with it as the bad weather.

[Santana Outdoors]

My 2 cents!

 

My calculated formula shows, hunter success is 5% luck, 25% timing, 20% weather, 50% is up to the individual. If they change it we will figure it out!

 

As far as Archery goes, all hunters deserve a chance at hunting during the rut. I have had the opportunity to hunt the rut with a rifle, muzzleloader and archery. It just becomes harder and harder to draw a great tag.

 

That's why I mainly hunt archery, or I should say put in for an archery tag.

 

Everyone still has opportunities get a tag during the rut (at least 1 in a million). Does anyone know exactly what Game and Fish is trying to accomplish by changing? Was it just to change the hunt to fall later or was there more?

[Red Rabbit]

Does anyone know exactly what Game and Fish is trying to accomplish by changing? Was it just to change the hunt to fall later or was there more?

 

AZGFD has not proposed the change. Some archers are discussing the change to get the season moved back one week so that the tail of the archery hunt will be closer to the middle of the rut for hopefully more rut activity and bugling to make a better hunt experience.

[cmc]

And the impact to Archery deer season would be what? We've played this game already it's a no win situation where you can please all the bow hunters.

 

cmc