Bullet types

[coueshunter]

Red Rabbit: Doug, can you help out with an explanation in layman terms. I think I will use the Winchester Ballistic silver tips for muleys this year in Co. but want to make sure they actually penetrate then expend their respective energy. I seem to remember Bullwidgeon saying he uses them and they have done the job on bear, deer etc. I bought a couple boxes because Sportsmens Warehouse didnt have Hornaday SST. Tell me if the Silvertips are similar to the SST and if you think they are a good bullet for bigger stuff like muleys.........Bret, pitch in if you do use the silver tips...............Allen..

[bullwidgeon]

Allen,

 

I do not know much about the Silvertips. I have watched them tip over two bulls out of 7MM Remington mags though. One was a spine shot at over 200 yards and the bull literally never moved again, he just flopped straight down like an anvil landed on him. The other was kind of uglier but not due to the bullet. Lets just say some bad shooting went on from 80 yards initially to about 300 or so. The bullets did their job but the rifleman didn't . We eventually got the bull later that morning and the holes in the bull which I inspected while skinning and boning him indicated no forms of bullet failure. These were the 140 grain model. If they shoot well out of your rifle they will ruin any carps day.

 

Bret M.

[matthewp45]

I personally like the new bonded bullets made by Hornady (Innerbond) and Nosler (Accubond). These bullets for me are the best out there. Great accuracy, penetration and bullet wieght retention. I have killed an elk with the innerbonds and a coues with the accubond. The accubond broke both shoulders completely and left an exit hole the size of a half dollar. The innerbond hit the elk high lung and completely severed the huge spinal cord. I have loaded SST and have seen them explode on contact on a coues. It was a 7mm 140grain. Hit the coues in the shoulder and exploded did not exit the animal. This is just personal experience. With this info and 50 cents you can get a cup of coffee.

[rigutierrez]

I got the new issue of Field and Stream yesturday. It had a good article on bullets and gives you some pretty good info on expansion. They tested 12 bulletes including the silver tips, hornaday sst , and accubonds.

 

I don't know much, if anything about expansion of bullets, so the article was very helpful on helping me understand the importance of getting the right bullet for the right animal.

[Red Rabbit]

Allen,

 

What rifle do you plan on using? Your 257? Reloading or using factory ammo?

 

The ballistic silvertips are the same bullet as the Nosler Ballistic tip, but with the Lubalox coating. Similar in perfomance to Hornady's SST. I have used the Nosler Ballistic tip out of my 270, 280 and 7mag on coues and Texas whitetail and have alwys had complete pentraion with the broadside shots. Expanion is definite and expect some bloodshot meat.

 

I am using the Nosler Accubond now with good accuracy and performance like a Nosler Partition. The Accubond has the lead core bonded to the copper jacket and has the plastic tip like the ballistic tip, but does not expand as violently as the Ballistic Tips may do.

 

Doug

[.270]

there is too much emphasis put on bulet types, sectional density, balistic co-efficient, expansion, velocity, etc, etc, and not enough on marksmanship. numbers on a paper won't kill anything. hitting em where it counts will. "ANY" reasonable bullet will put down any mule deer, if the guy doin' the shootin' does his part. it will also put down any elk, moose, bear, sheep, elephant, etc. forget all the fancy words. forget about all the big numbers. learn how to shoot. learn your rifle. learn where it hits and be able to do it consistantly with your heart rate way up. you can punch a buck in the guts all you want with whatever you want, and he's still gonna run off. hit em in the lungs. they will die and die quickly. with "ANY" bullet. if they don't, you didn't do your part. Lark.

[More D]

Last season I was lucky enough to take a nice muley. From my 30-06 I was shooting a handloaded 150grn SST because it was giving great accuracy, a hair under 3/4 inch if I did my part. I like the plastic tipped style bullet as long as the shots a far. The shot was just past my self imposed limit of 400 yards at 406. He was quartering away, no wind(at least where I was), he was feeding calmly amd aside from the setting sun, I was in no hurry. I hit him abit farther back than I would have liked, it entered behind the last rib and exit tight to the off sholder. The bullet never hit bone and left and exit hole about the size of a quarter.

As I mentioned it never hit bone but boy did it do a number on him. The part of the stomach, the liver, and right lung all looked like they were chopped to tiny bits. A bit messy but it worked!

My wifes last deer was a Big bodied muley as well and her shot at just over 100 yard was perfect. She hit him right on top of the ball of the front sholders. She at first though she missed because she could not see him but he dropped stright down and never even kicked. The exit was the size of a silver dollar, the bullet was a Nosler BT. That deer was a pleaser to field dress.

Hope this helped!

 

 

 

[coueshunter]

Lark, you are basically right but when a partition last year missed bones and passed through two elk my wife shot that are on video, I got a bit nervous and dont feel comfortable shooting them, maybe a mojo thing but need to change. Doug, I am going to take my .280 and picked up some 140grain silver tips but didnt want them to blow up on impact like everyone says about BT's. Anyway, just have a premium tag in my pocket and want to eliminate one more thing from my mind before I am out in the field.....thanks guys..........Allen.....

[wetmule]

Allen,

You already know this but really whatever shoots good out of your rifle is what you should use. I would echo what Lark said, it's all about shot placement, if you have the time, get a solid rest and put one in his lungs, you won't have any worries. If you are shooting factory and trying different brands and bullets I wouldn't overlook Remington corelokt 130-150 gr., they are really pretty cheap as far as ammo goes, and you can get them for reloading as well. I've seen lots and lots of big mulies on the ground as a result of corelokts. The CL's always seem to retain most of their weight and more often than not end up in a perfect mushroom, probably my favorite for big muleys. I also like the ballistic tips and have seen them take plenty of big bucks, and they shoot really, really good out of my 270. Have fun and good luck, hope you find a Jumbo.

[.270]

i've never been a big fan of "premium" bullets. not because of performance but because of the price. noslers and barnes, etc. have always been about 3 to 4 times as much as regular ol' copper jacket/lead core slugs. i've always shot a lot. and i couldn't see spending so much for bullets when the ol' sierra 130's i used to shoot worked fine. since then i've switched to hornady 140gr spbt's, in my .270. can't even remember why exactly, but they've never failed me. i've never seen an animal shot in the lungs, (any animal, any bullet, any gun) that lived long enough to get away. they can run about as far as they can hold their breath. when folks say they shot one in the lungs and it got away, i gotta take it with a grain of salt. saw an elk go about 1/4 mile once with a perfect lung shot. but it was going downhill and their was blood sprayed everywhere and it wasn't hard to track. that was the exception. and i've seen enough to have a pretty good baseline for opinion. most others never make it more than maybe a 100 yards or so. they can't do it. the sierras always seemed to seperate, even on deer. but they killed the heck outta whatever i shot. destroyed lungs. i'd always find the jacket in one place and the lead in another. or maybe in a couple other places. but they shot accurate and done the job. the hornadys seem to hold together real well and seem to never pass through. always find em wadded up under the skin on the off side. even on close shots. i really like that. tells me that every ounce of energy was expended inside the animal. i don't need 2 blood trails to follow to one animal, and when they go down in sight, you don't need to trail em anyway. never been a big fan of plastic tipped bullets, and have seen some real horrible results from them, but from what i've heard the past few years, they've really been improved on. don't care for the all copper bullets either. mainly because of cost and because you have to back off on your load so much because the increased pressure they produce won't allow you to get the big velocity. and i dooooo like velocity. but Allen, as far as muleys, i've dumped em in their tracks with anything from a .22/250 to a .300 mag. always makes me laugh when a bullet/caliber/cartridge debate pops up and folks say some guns won't work while others will. i've shot a buncha animals with a bow and a muzzleloader. ain't one bow or one muzzleloader that is as good as a .22 repeater, in my opinion. marksmanship and havin' on your sneaky shoes is the key. good luck and good shootin'. Lark.

[coueshunter]

My big problem is how my MOJO feels after watching a bull get away after being shot with partitions. I used core-lokt for years, being penniless and switched to partitions when I started re-loading in 1982 but after seeing that bull get away, I just know I need to switch so its more of a brain issue. I never ever lost an animal with partitions and still have about four boxes of 150grains but cant seem to want to take them. I think with all the idle time till season I just need to talk........LOL........on a side note, Duwane Adams has seen the punch through issue with partitions and told me about it which further screwed with my brain.........LOL.......I just need to drink a couple fifths of tequilla and then quit thinking about unimportant shoot and get out there and kill the buck of my dreams over 195...thanks for the responses.........hope you guys kill something youve dreamed of................AT..............

[firstcoueswas80]

try the accubond allen, i get GREAT accuracy from them out of my 270 wsm (tightest group is .336) they are a great bullet!

[Red Rabbit]

Allen,

 

When has a Partition failed? It's kinda like the best of both worlds-expansion in the front and penetration in the rear. Some one has said,"Shut up, load Partitions and go hunting."

Heck, a Partition or Accubond costs 12-17 cents less than a Ballistic Tip bullet.

Put one less beer in the ice chest and you can carry a full magazine of premium bullets. If it's the bullet that does the final coup de gras that matters, why scrimp on a swallow of cervesa?

Handload and practice with hundreds of cheap bullets with a similar trajectory as the bullet you take hunting. A lot can be learned from field practice.

 

RR

[coueshunter]

Doug, it definitely isnt a money issue or beer issue. I dont drink, quit 7 years ago. You asked when they failed and I already told you, my wife lost two bulls in unit one last year during the depredation hunts. I along with two other guides filmed the shot behind the left front shoulder and exiting from the brisket. Lots of frothy lung blood and we figured first thing in the morning we would find him piled up. It was right at dark and we didnt want to push him. Anyway, after watching this happen in the field and questioning Duwane, I have an uncomfortable feeling and just wanted other field experience............thanks for the replies.......AT.......

[.270]

it ain't never a money issue with allen. he's so rich my bank account went up just talkin' to him. mojo? you gonna hunt in N'awlins? reading what ya rit about the bulls, it sounds to me like they were there dead somewhere and you tracked past em. i mean it's real hard to say, without being there. but i've never seen one lung shot that made it very far. gutshot, yeah. hockshot, yeah. humpshot, yeah. they seldom go too far after getting hit in the liver or kidneys. takes em awhile to croak, but they get too sick to run, real quick. one thing i've seen several times is elk hit hard, and for whatever reason sometimes, they quit leaving much blood. hair cakes over or the skin moves to where blood doesn't come out very well. something happens. don't know for sure what. another thing it seems like is that they can be real tough and go until they don't have any blood left and get real hard to track. but i've never seen, not even one time, where i thought that it was the bullets fault. i've seen some guys do some horrible jobs shootin'. seen some times when the bullet just wasn't what was needed, which is also the shooters fault. especially when them dang balistic tips first came out. saw a guy shoot a 3x3 muley so many times that it was real ugly with a .257 roberts. actually found the little plastic tips laying on the ground, by all the hide it blew off. but that wasn't the bullets fault either. he shoulda used something different. like i say, without being there it's hard to pass judgement, but i've never seen a well hit elk get away. with rifle, bow or muzzleloader. if it was in country that had a little steepness to it, i'd guess that they turned abruptly and went downhill real fast as they were taking their last gasp. be real easy for one to run away from the bloodtrail that way. and get far enough away that they'd be hard to find. and i know what you're talking about when you say confidence. sometimes it's like something just plucks your bullets out of the air. you know you have to be hittin' em, but ya ain't. i used to use the old style silvertips years ago. especially with my ol' .30/30. and in my .270 to some extent. they always worked fine. i would think that just about anything you decide on would work real well. i bought some hornady interbond 130's in .277 today. gonna try something different for a change. haven't shot anything but 140 btsp's for over 20 years and they have worked great. but i think i'll load up 100 o' these and see what they do. o' course when you're an ol' ear hole shooter like me, at least inside o' 500 yards, anything works. pick a bullet and use it. Lark.