Str8Shot Report post Posted February 14, 2010 Why are so many of you on the defensive here ..... I say let them use any avenue they have to stay on top of illegal activity when it comes to our big game in this state.... I have seen numerous people question pics on this site and others then assume way to much without having the full story , so what is the difference if it is being done by G&F and the truth comes out good or bad ? So when a G&F officer reads a post about the illegal activity in our southern units and teams up with border patrol to contact those witness to it and make sure they are following up on such things it is OK..... But when they see a kill pic that does not add up because of a date or maybe even more reasons they are in the wrong for following up on it ..... Guess I will just think about why some would worry so much and be so vocal on this issue ???? Wow str8 You are really a glass half full if you think there is any collaboration coming from the G&F for anything other than busting hunters. But seriously, you ask why are people on the defensive, well I for one don't live in a "glass palace". What I mean is I "might" have a couple lion kill skulls with no tag. I "might" have expired tags on my Samurai. I "might" not have a Copper tag on my motorcycle. I "might have too much gun powder for reloading. I "might" have more venison than a G&F think I should have. My kid "might be shooting his bb gun as we speak. Heck, my dog "might" not even have a license. Of course this is all hypathetical. I guess as the saying goes IGNORANCE IS BLISS ..... using all kinds of hypothetical situations to try to substantiate your Hypothetical point of a G&F conspiracy theory .... I don't recall the original post stating that homes were searched only that hunters where Questioned very much in the same way earlier this year a monster Archery kill had more than a couple members questioning the Validity of the guys kill because it was Hard horned at a time when 95% of kills are still in full velvet, putting the hunter in a situation where he was defending himself to people who do not even have any authority but tend to privy themselves as experts .... The sad truth is a percent of hunters neglect laws and the people who enforce those laws should be given a little more respect when it comes to what they have to deal with .... I don't like all the laws but I abide by them like them or not , for that I have no worries and could care less if some vane idiot who wants to brag, uses today's technology to post pics of an Elk that said was taken during a hunt before the first snowfall while there is 4 or 5 inches of snow around him or a Hunter who decided to take his kill shot a Day early or two days late and forgot that the date is on the picture, gets questioned ... I feel questioning should be ordered in cases like this.... I am sure when the questioned shows a camera that has the wrong date on it or the stories from involved parties are about the same the BIG BAD Game Officer is on his merry way, but If a person is guilty and gets caught through this process, I would give a big High Five to the ones that caught him/her... Freedom in this country was sold off to the highest bidders many years ago and as far as LAWS we have to many but We still have the right to make our choices when it comes to those laws but with every choice there is consequence, and the thing I hate the most is when people make the wrong choice and get caught then cry about the consequences and never man up .... If the guy is doing his Job let him if your caught breaking some law then Your bad not His (he did not make the laws) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.270 Report post Posted February 14, 2010 those same laws protect against unlawful search and seizure too. "MY" house is "MY" house and nobody is going to come in "MY" house and go on a fishing trip without a warrant and i refuse to give anybody any ammo to shoot me with. if these guys wanna do this type of stuff, i don't care, just don't expect me to submit without a some sort of writ saying it's legal and as far as answering questions, there is a thing called the 5th ammendment, a civil right, that says ya don't have to. the azgfd needs to spend more time chasing the real bad guys and being in the field doing real work, not chasing around cyber stuff. that's too napalitanoish for me. if you wanna let guys come to your house on a fishing trip, go ahead, the same laws that say i don't have say you can if you want. Lark. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Str8Shot Report post Posted February 14, 2010 Lark .... I am not disagreeing with you when it comes to legal search vs. illegal or 5th amendment rights .... I am talking about the constant bashing of guys doing their job... While I agree with being more vigilant in the field is a much better way to use their resources the fact is that we evolve to our technology and the internet is part of that ... The fact is their are stupid people out there breaking laws and then showing proof of their acts online through Blogs,forums,youtube,pictures and more... when questionable acts are documented in this medium we share and someone within the law acts on it so many are quick to attack that authority .... It has been key in more than just busting illegal hunters and poachers but also murders, rapists, and thieves as well ..... I am not passing judgment on the hunters involved( i am sure it was all good) but will not belittle the Officers who are doing their job.... To assume this is a big conspiracy and that it is some new way to police without doing field work I think is a little off key .... But Hey after years on this site of seeing guys going for blood over stolen cams and hoping to see someone caught red handed , when it did come to fruition the one with the cam in his hands was supported by many of the MOB here and the victim became the questioned .... So excuse me when I have to question why some are so quick to bash and get over defensive on subjects such as this ..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bowsniper Report post Posted February 14, 2010 ok, i'll step on my own foot a little. no cop of any kind is coming in my house without a valid warrant. i don't do anything illegal but i'm not letting anybody go fishing in my house. and it has always seemed to me that bunny cops seem to mess with folks that let them. i understand...................................................................... ................................................................................ ........................... my take, Lark. I never thought that I would be saying this, but I finally agree with lark on this one, he nailed it. A few years ago, I started a web page for Desert Christian Archers. (http://desertchristianarchers.com/) On the website, I put a whole bunch of hunting success pictures, along with hunter names. Despite being "so underfunded", someone at G&F had the time to verify that all the hunters in the pictures had tags. A few of the archery deer pictures were taken before the mandatory reporting started. G&F had the time to go out and knock on everyone of those guys doors, and hassle them about not reporting the kill. G&F ended up not being able to prove anything, but those guys were really hassled. BTW, a DPS friend told me that G&F cops are the most powerful cops in the state. They can write you up for anything, including a traffic ticket in downtown Phoenix. So when you let one in your house, don't think that he is just looking at your animals. If you let one in, anything is fair game. Mark Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bowsniper Report post Posted February 14, 2010 Lark .... I am not disagreeing with you when it comes to legal search vs. illegal or 5th amendment rights .... Better check, I think that you meant the 4th amendment: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. Mark Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muskrat Report post Posted February 14, 2010 I guess I see both sides. If there were individuals that we all knew were poachers, posting pics on the net - we'd all be screaming "Geez - how easy can they make it? game and Fish - Get over there and get those guys!!" Also, cops aren't just supposed to investigate the hard way - they should take the gimmes too. On the other hand, swinging by your house while in the area and saying "hey, we noticed you had some photos posted and the date wasn't jiving - we just wanted to check and make sure of what the story was" is different than spending "serious" time and effort "investigating" a potential crime, via the internet. They wanna do some due diligence and ask a question? Fine. Want to show up, try to shake me down, come in and poke around without a warrant? Not fine. Not everything is an absolute, guys. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
youngbuck Report post Posted February 14, 2010 I see both sides too. I agree w/ Lark and others about unreasonable search and seizure stuff and i know my rights and will stand firm. But i also see guys playin arm chair quarterbacks for the wardens. Who knows how these guys get their internet info. We can assume they got it siting at a desk when "they should be out makin boot tracks" finding law breakers. Maybe they got some office girls who would normally be on myspace to cruize around on hunting forums. I know nobody is gonna be sniffin around my house w/out a warrant. I dont have anything to hide or anything illegal but maybe i got stuff i dont wanna share. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IHunt2live Report post Posted February 14, 2010 ok, i'll step on my own foot a little. no cop of any kind is coming in my house without a valid warrant. i don't do anything illegal but i'm not letting anybody go fishing in my house. and it has always seemed to me that bunny cops seem to mess with folks that let them. i understand...................................................................... ................................................................................ ........................... my take, Lark. I never thought that I would be saying this, but I finally agree with lark on this one, he nailed it. A few years ago, I started a web page for Desert Christian Archers. (http://desertchristianarchers.com/) On the website, I put a whole bunch of hunting success pictures, along with hunter names. Despite being "so underfunded", someone at G&F had the time to verify that all the hunters in the pictures had tags. A few of the archery deer pictures were taken before the mandatory reporting started. G&F had the time to go out and knock on everyone of those guys doors, and hassle them about not reporting the kill. G&F ended up not being able to prove anything, but those guys were really hassled. BTW, a DPS friend told me that G&F cops are the most powerful cops in the state. They can write you up for anything, including a traffic ticket in downtown Phoenix. So when you let one in your house, don't think that he is just looking at your animals. If you let one in, anything is fair game. Mark ANY police officer in this state can write a ticket for ANYTHING in vilocation to the laws ANYWHERE in this state. Officers just don't like stepping on toes by jumping juristitions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.270 Report post Posted February 15, 2010 str8shot wasn't confusing them, it just sorta looked that way. a few years ago a guy from tucson killed what was at the time the world record nontypical coues. this guy had several years of sheds from this buck and had been after it for awhile. when he shot it somebody got jealous and finked him out to the azgfd and said he shot it outta season. they took his photos and said because of the way the shadows were that he shot it either before or after the season. can't remember which way they said it was. anyway, they confiscated his buck and rit him a big ol' poachin' ticket and all that. he got an attorney and won in court. from what i heard the evidence was pretty flimsey and the guy was a pretty good guy on top of that. cost him a fortune, and from what i remember, b&c wouldn't recognize it because of the stain he got on him from the azgfd. it was a pretty crappy deal all around. made him look bad when he didn't deserve it and made the azgfd look bad. and it cost the guy a buncha money. maybe they don't have very good memories, but this looks like a situation where there could be some similar results. if you read the proclomation real good, you can't hardly leave your house with a gun and not break a law. there are some real bad guys out there. guys who have no reason having a license. outlaws with no morals what so ever. there needs to be some real effort in removing them from the herd. spending a bunch of time and effort on something that isn't going to catch a bad guy just isn't worthwhile. and if you let someone, even if it's a cop, violate the rights of a citizen and a homeowner (you) then you deserve it. and whoever said that game wardens have more authority than other cops is wrong. cops are cops. outside of tribal cops, they have no real boundaries to their jurisdiction. heck, anybody can pull a citizens arrest, anywhere. i think a cop has that much authority too. cops of all kinds have a job to do, get the bad guys. that's what they need to put their efforts in to. if a bunny sherrif has some good info that some dork has done something he needs pounded over, then go get him. but going around willy nilly askin' folks to prove when a photo was taken doesn't seem to be too be a very good use of resource. Lark. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hunterdude Report post Posted February 15, 2010 OMG! Have we beat this to death yet or what? Lets talk about the weather or something like plans for the spring! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
culpritz Report post Posted February 19, 2010 look at this cow elk http://www.azgfd.net/photos/details.php?image_id=3203 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Packer Report post Posted February 19, 2010 look at this cow elk http://www.azgfd.net/photos/details.php?image_id=3203 Considering that it is the same bull he posted as his 2008 kill I would say he uploaded the wrong pic. But I could be way off on that. Aaron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bonecollector Report post Posted February 19, 2010 Nice cow! :lol: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
culpritz Report post Posted February 19, 2010 i posted it as kinda a joke im sure the dude messed up on the photo wording hahahaat least i hope he didnt think it was a cow Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coach Report post Posted February 19, 2010 Not to double beat a dead horse, but I would expect the G&F officers to respond to any and all leads WRT game violoations. In my experience most of them are very level headed, and simply answering some questions about a photo that appears to show a possible violation is not some major violation of privacy. A couple things I'm sure we can all agree to are 1) that poaching is theft from all of us and 2) poaching is extremely hard to prove if it is not witnessed first hand. If a G&F officer has some premise to investigate, it is their job - their sworn duty - to follow up on it and get the facts. You could easily flop this one (if it DID turn out to be an illegal harvest) that G&F did not do enough to verify that the animal was taken legally. I'd rather give our G&F officers the benefit of doubt and encourage them to persue any and all leads that might track down a poacher, than wonder why they ignored evidence. If there is a good explanation, as in this case, that's as far as it goes. We are really blessed in this state NOT to have a bunch of ticket-first-ask-questions-later officers. Yes there are a couple of ego cases here, but they are in the minority. Spend some time across state lines, and I'll bet you'll be looking for the first AZGFD officer to buy lunch, because on average, they are way more down-to-earth and willing to assess situations rationally than many of our bretheren states. Just my $.02 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
