Are hunters managing their own deer herds?

[Chef]

As every hunting season comes and goes, not only do I notice the caliber of coues bucks harvested getting better, but the quantity of good bucks taken gets larger.

 

I think these discussion forums contribute greatly to trophy hunter education. Are we not getting better at judging bucks in the field? From seeing pictures posted with scores, to "guess the score" contests, we must be.

 

What I see happening more often is hunters letting bucks "walk". Betting on their abilities to find and kill a bigger buck, and being okay with eating tag soup if we don't. Basically letting smaller bucks, get bigger,

 

Of course, we all become better hunters (hopefully) as hunts go by. Maybe that contributes also, but with better glassing techniques becoming the norm, attention to rifle /caliber/ scope selections, and the confidence to make educated shots by using rangefinders etc. we must be, in some way, policing ourselves.

 

In turn, the units we hunt in, slowly become better with the chances at a 100" coues buck being better.

 

I thought this would make good discussion, plus I wanted to hear different takes on this.

 

Discuss.

[gotcoues]

I agree with your statements to an extent chef and I hope the trend continues. I also think the knowledge of what equipment works well being passed on to other coues hunters has increased the size of animals people are hoping for. It does however bum me out when seasoned hunters are continually taking small bucks over and over. I know I shouldn't worry about it and in reality it probably stems from my own selfishness in some way. I brought up point restrictions a ways back and was shot down pretty hard. I now understand that is a bad idea, and people should make their own goals. I like your topic and look forward to reading other people's opinions.

[IHunt2live]

The hunters that are on this site are not you average hunters and consist of a very small % of the hunting population. Theres still plenty of small bucks being taken.

On the flip side disscusion forum make SOME hunters make bad/illegal desisions just to shoot and post (brag) about their deer. Not saying anyone on this site is that way, that guy from cali. buying racks off the internet and claiming he shot them is one example.

[TAIL CHASER]

I completely agree with you I think all of those things are factors to harvesting 100" bucks. I also want to add that trail cameras are also a contributing factor. I consider myself a average hunter at best I don't have the time or money to spend a hole lot of time in the woods and I don't live in Coues country. I bought some trail cameras 2 years ago and I know that they have helped me. Not only are thay a great scouting tool because they do some of the work for you. I say some because you still have to get out there and do the work to find a spot. "deer aren't attracted to cameras"

They also give you the confidence it takes to kill a trophy buck. Once you have seen that buck on camera a couple of time your confidence builds and once you have the confidence anything is possible. "100 inch bucks are possible"

[SunDevil]

just because some of us will let smaller bucks walk in hopes that they will grow up does not mean the majority of the hunters will do the same thing. LOTS of 1.5 - 2.5 year old bucks killed every year.

[Browning'sCustomMeat]

I do think the same. If one has hunted and scouted an area consistently, he/she gets to know what animals are in there. Cameras play a big role anymore and are a great asset. I know of a few people that "manage" an area as far as having friends come in and and harvest some bucks out of spot and it seems to be working in their favor being able to harvest bigger or more characterized bucks. So my answer is "yes" I do believe hunters are somewhat "managing" their herds.

 

-Jeremy-

[WHT_MTNMAN]

I think every year sites like this become more popular with more people posting away. I'm sure the quality of deer taken every year is becoming more visible, more recognized not necessarily meaning that more quality bucks are being taken every year. IMO

 

 

[billrquimby]

"Are hunters managing their own deer herds?"

 

No.

 

Bill Quimby

[Guest borderboy]

Use of cameras, scents, decoys, bait, etc. has allowed people to be more selective. Not to mention the advances in long range shooting.

[Chef]

Some good points brought up.

 

I know hunters that frequent forums like this don't necessarily represent the majority of hunters. I also understand completely that there are many "meat bucks" taken in every unit. With that said, how many hunters eventually "convert" and start holding out? Especially those that hunt the same unit frequently? Basically "investing" in their own backyard per se.

 

Trail cameras, good one tailchaser, definitely contribute to the way of thinking of those that use them. We can't say we don't hold out for mister big when we got him on camera!

 

Wht_Mtnman, sure we get to see a lot more buck because of forums like these. Have you ever considered how many bucks don't break the airwaves specifically because of the web? I know first hand there are hunters that don't want anything to do with the mags and the web. Maybe the tables turn a little to the other side with that? Hard to say and no way of measuring, but interesting non the less.

 

Thanks for the opinions guys. Again, interesting points made.

[Str8Shot]

"Are hunters managing their own deer herds?"

 

No.

 

Bill Quimby

 

+ 1

 

Could not agree more with that "NO"

 

 

[tjhunt2]

I think every year sites like this become more popular with more people posting away. I'm sure the quality of deer taken every year is becoming more visible, more recognized not necessarily meaning that more quality bucks are being taken every year. IMO

 

I have to agree with 'wht mtnman' on that for sure but I do agree with some of the other things that have been brought up as well. I have to agree with Bill on his "no" to hunters managing their own deer herds except for those who own or lease a big chunk of land for their own hunting purposes. Unlike javelina, deer herds can take in a very large area. I have been a meat hunter for the most of my years hunting but have converted to holding out a few times and eating tag soup.

 

I do believe hunters can somewhat manage a pig herd but hunters can't nanage a deer herd. G&F have more tools, resources, and still have a hard time managing most of our deer herds. It's not as easy as you think. IMO

 

Good subject and post.

 

TJ

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

 

 

Impossible to Manage public land deer! IMO.

 

That being said.. we try to be selective in our harvests year in and year out in areas we hunt.... making ourselves and the kids pass young "up and coming" bucks.... we try to hold for a Mature buck (that doesn't always happen, but we try....) . We tell the kids to shoot a cull... a big fork w/ eyegards or an old buck with crappy genetices.... Sellective hunting does strengthen the herd and promote a "minimal" chance at a bigger buck next year... but in no way can be even remotely be called management.... more like good conservation. I love letting a 3 1/2 year old coues that is sporting a 90+ inch rack walk on.... I feel good about myself and the deer... however, I am also knowing that the next 5 guys that see that buck are gunna try to let the air out of him... but I know that I practiced what I preach and that the hills I hunt are healthier for my efforts (atleast a percent or two healthier).

 

 

[Cowman]

Impossible to Manage public land deer! IMO.

 

That being said.. we try to be selective in our harvests year in and year out in areas we hunt.... making ourselves and the kids pass young "up and coming" bucks.... we try to hold for a Mature buck (that doesn't always happen, but we try....) . We tell the kids to shoot a cull... a big fork w/ eyegards or an old buck with crappy genetices.... Sellective hunting does strengthen the herd and promote a "minimal" chance at a bigger buck next year... but in no way can be even remotely be called management.... more like good conservation. I love letting a 3 1/2 year old coues that is sporting a 90+ inch rack walk on.... I feel good about myself and the deer... however, I am also knowing that the next 5 guys that see that buck are gunna try to let the air out of him... but I know that I practiced what I preach and that the hills I hunt are healthier for my efforts (atleast a percent or two healthier).

 

 

+1. Well said, particularly for a man who likes to "get bloody!" Cheers pal!

[AZantlerhead]

I respectfully disagree here, Very simply, Yes, Hunters are manageing herds. What the heck do you think Hunting is, what is the role of G&F to oversee it all? GAME MANAGEMENT. Otherwise All hunting would be outlawed OR there would be No bag limits and no tags needed...

 

States of Utah, Texas and New mexico allready have antler restrictions, just to name a couple. Maybe not by choice but the restrictions are in place.

 

Luckily in AZ , we can still harvest spikes, whenever and wherever, if we so desire.... with tag of course.

 

The new Antlerless hunts in the kaibab also constitute as herd management, numbers of tags also " Managed", in an assigned unit of course. i.e "management" once again.

 

Maybe it won't be long, AZ will also have laws stateing forked antler or better-NM or Three point or smaller--UT Or maybe even a limit on spread too-TX.

 

AZ seems to allways be last in loseing individual freedoms and rights, but it won't be long...

 

A hunters personal choice to bag a spike, or a 100+ or nothing is just that, a personal choice but still individual management of the herd( particullarly the spot you hunt year in and year out, if you shoot a spike 5 years in a row at the same waterhole every year- you have 5 less older bigger bucks maybe after 5 years, theoreticly, if you passed on all the spikes for 5 years , guess what, more older-bigger bucks, multiply that by the number of hunters now out for mature animals only.......- given they don't die naturally, that desicion of course overseen by allot tags, in a given time in a given unit with a given weapon of course. But maybe Big Brother of AZ will step in and make up your mind for you in days to come regarding what size antler too? No, theres no maybe about it, it's comeing.

 

Again, Yes- hunters are manageing deer herds. Just read the heading above the unit map in the regs.....

-My .02 cents

 

The question you asked is very general and covers a broad spectrum, Great topic

I'll shutup now- said my piece