New Mexico Eastern Whitetail?

[tontotom]

Anyone hunt the small herd of eastern whitetail in New Mexico? I'm wanting to harvest one without paying texas trophy fees or hunt behind a fence. Thought it might be a good hunt for next fall.

[Kilimanjaro]

I've seen them near Nara Visa and Wagon Whee while pronghorn hunting.. But thats quite a drive from here..

 

Seen them near Clovis a time or 2 as well when we were on the stateline (TX) quail hunting.

[WFGinNM]

I've been interested in them as well.

 

--Bill

[GRONG]

I used to travel thru Mescalero and Ruidoso buying antler quite a bit and you should've seen some of the giant eastern whiteys I saw there!! Heard of a locked set of 180" type bucks but never got to see them personally but did see many others. Unit 34 over there has quite a bit around Cloudcroft from what all the locals told me.

 

Here's the biggest shed I bought in that area. Scores 85" non-typ.

 

 

Sure wish I could remember this guy's name but he was one of the Rangers on the Mescalero rez and he brought this buck in he'd killed to show me one day. Heck of a nice guy and a fantastic trophy.

 

 

 

 

[.270]

there was a dead doe on i-25 northbound just south of springer in october when i was headed to colorado to hunt pronghorns. schocked me to see it there. Lark.

[billrquimby]

Hey guys, the two subspecies of white-tailed deer found in New Mexico are the Odocoileus virginianus couesi and O.v. texanus races. (The texanus subspecies is found across six U.S. states -- and not just Texas -- and two Mexican states.) New Mexico's Coues and Texas whitetails are just two of the 30 recognized subspecies of North American white-tailed deer.

 

Last I looked, Boone & Crockett and Pope & Young lumped 29 of the North American whitetails (all except the Coues whitetail) into a single "whitetail deer" category. Recognizing that there are differences between the deer of each region, SCI lumps the 30 subspecies into seven categories based on their geographical range (again, except for the Coues whitetail).

 

What I'm trying to say is there is no such critter as an "eastern" whitetail, at least as far as scientists and record books are concerned. For those of us who hunt Coues whitetails to call the 29 other races "eastern whitetails" does a gross injustice to the various types of whitetails found north, west and south of here.

 

Bill Quimby

[ultramag]

I have always wondered if those eastern whitetail could ever make it to AZ? I can't seem to think of a reason why they couldn't. The coues might not like it to well. I have heard stories of eastern whitetail that didn't exist in some places in montana and colorado and now they are very abundant in those areas. could they be comming to arizona in the future?

[billrquimby]

I have always wondered if those eastern whitetail could ever make it to AZ? I can't seem to think of a reason why they couldn't. The coues might not like it to well. I have heard stories of eastern whitetail that didn't exist in some places in montana and colorado and now they are very abundant in those areas. could they be comming to arizona in the future?

 

 

Aaarrrrrggggh! Montana is north of us, Colorado is northeast of us. Why call their whitetails "eastern?"

 

The whitetails of Montana (O.v. dakotensus and O.v. ochrourus) are not the same as the whitetails of Colorado (O.v. texanus). Although the range of these three races may have expanded or shrunk slightly in recent years, they have existed in pretty much the same regions of those states for many millennia.

 

The chance of New Mexico's Texas whitetails leaving their traditional range and moving west across that state's central plains to intermingle with its Coues whitetails (and Arizona's) is pretty slim -- i.e. if it hasn't happened in the past few thousand years it probably is safe to say it won't happen in our lifetimes.

 

There might be a short-term effect on some of our deer in the unlikely event that a few Texas whitetails from eastern New Mexico did reach Coues whitetail country, but the environmental differences that made Coues whitetails unique eventually would take over and, many generations after the influx, the whitetails in our present Coues deer range would again be small, with antlers to match.

 

Incidentally, several of the whitetail subspecies in the southeastern United States (as well as most of the whitetail races in Mexico and Central America) are as small or smaller than our Coues deer. Would you call them "eastern whitetails" also?

 

Bill Quimby

[.270]

so whatter we 'sposeta call em? i ain't memorizin' all them subspecies. they're east o' here. sooooooooooooooooooooo? how can they be tejas whitetail if they're in new mex? texmex maybe, but i don't see how ya can call em texas whitetail. maybe the come from oklahoma? heard there was fruit ready to pick around raton. Lark.

[GRONG]

Wow Bill, sorry to strike such a nasty cord with you. Must be a pet peeve of yours. It's merely said as a generalization more than anything. I've heard there as many as 13 subspecies of "northern" whitetail but when referring to all other whitetail other than coues it's much easier to say Eastern. Everyone pretty much knows what you're talkin about when you hear them referred to that way. For now on when referring to wt in NM other than coues I'll say one of the 2-4 subspecies of TX whitetail.

[Antlerdog]

Lark,

Most of the fruit is on the other side of the border to the north in Trinidad!

 

Bill,

Most of the common folk refer to them as "northern", "eastern" or Texas whitetail, for as long as I can remember. Seems pretty simple.

[AZantlerhead]

WA-wa-Wahhhhh, tomato-tamato . At least a Coues is a Coues!! or is it a " cooz" or a "cow's" ohhh brother

[IHunt2live]

Realy doesn't matter what we call them. They are out there doing their thing, no matter what we call them.

[billrquimby]

Long before they became known as "Coues" whitetails, our little deer were widely known in the hunting community as "Arizona whitetails," and this included those taken in New Mexico and Mexico. It finally changed when the Boone and Crockett Club finally realized that it had goofed in the 1920s when it created a separate category for just this one subspecies because it mistakenly believed the whitetails named after Elliott Coues were a distinct species.

 

Texas whitetails (there is only one subspecies) are named for their scientific name (Odocoileus virginianus texanus), which was given to them by the naturalist who first described them. He apparently collected the type specimen in that state. This subspecies is found in eastern Colorado, eastern New Mexico, western Oklahoma, Nebraska and Kansas, as well as Texas. northeastern Chihuahua, northern Neva Leon and northwestern Tamaulipas.

 

I agree another common name for them is needed, but "eastern whitetail" is not appropriate IMO.

 

The SCI method of lumping the 30 subspecies into categories based mostly on the regions where they are found is much better: northwestern whitetail, northeastern whitetail, southeastern whitetail, mid-western whitetail, Texas whitetail, Anticosti whitetail, Coues whitetail, Mexican whitetail and Central American whitetail. At least this way, a hunter has an idea what type of animal someone is talking about, where it is found and what size it might be.

 

Calling every whitetail that is not a Coues deer an "eastern whitetail" simply is wrong. What about the whitetails of Washington, Oregon, California, Nevada and Idaho that are found west of the Rocky Mountains or those that are found south of the U.S. border?

 

It really does matter what we call them. The reason I get so bent out of shape when I see fellow hunters say things such as "eastern whitetail," and "species" when they mean "subspecies," is because as knowledgeable and experienced hunters we should know better. If we do not, we should educate ourselves about the natural history of the animals we hunt.

 

I feel the same about seeing things such as "taxi" for taxidermist, "javy" for javelina, "whitey" for whitetail, and on and on. I also go ballistic on the African hunting sites, where members typically are more affluent and better educated, when I see them saying "ele" for elephant.

 

Such things make all hunters look childish and ignorant to others, especially our enemies and the potential friends we need.

 

Bill Quimby

[willhunt4coues]

Yes but here is my question, all whitetails are east of somewhere right?

 

You Bill are very booksmart