I propose a new scoring system!

[SilentButDeadly]

Seeing the latest Mossback photos (no disrespect - they are badasses), made me realize that we need to adopt a new scoring system, at least for the online community... Respect for the game/hunt is a big part of what people talk about, and the debate between DIY and Guided is unending. Therefore, I suggest I new scoring system.

 

Use B&C or SCI, whatever, but real 'trophy' status, 'bragging rights' comes down on the number of people, especially in that 'trophy photo', who helped in the hunt.

 

Take the # inches in that buck/bull/ram and divide it by the number of people in the photo. Let's be generous and say the number (n) of people is part of the total: score / n-1 = 'real' score

 

If you are DIY, then you get total inch score,

 

If you have 1 guide you get total inch score,

 

But after that it is a fraction of total score - cuz lets be serious, more eyes = more opportunity, less effort (meals, preparation, scouting, etc) not to mention the $$$ (that number is probably exponential by the # inches, but that's another post)

 

I'll let the peanut gallery come up with a new name for the scoring system, but in my opinion, it is totally fair - if you've got 3-4 guys helping you, and you kill a 100 inch buck, it is proportionate to you shooting a 50 inch buck by yourself.

 

T

 

PS IMO - 3 people is the perfect # for hunting, again, another post.

 

 

[AZantlerhead]

There would then be a deduction for trail cam use too? . It's a thought Silent, until someone "helps" you kill the next big thing, then you won't like it. Is an animal " smaller" if someone helps you? hmmmm, I dunno buddy. I understand where your going with this, especially concerning the Spider Bull. But a WR like that bull deserves no lost credit just because he was tag teamed by 20 dudes. Maybe there should be a seperate category for the use of professional guides? But what if it was just you and a friend or relative?

 

Food for thought.............Interesting topic

 

Thinking on this more there would then be deductions for anything that ups your odds.

 

High power optics, Range finder, super high performance rifle and scope, the claw, a treestand or blind, camoflouge, a spotter while you fling bullets,

scent products, the list would go on and on, ............. it won't fly. P&Y is pretty harsh on their fair chase rules concerning your equipment and sci has a category for high fence, so it's kind of in affect allready. Should the gov. tag animals be thrown out?

 

The more you spend with an oufitter usually transfers to the caliber of your trophy but he's still gotta shoot straight. I'm sure the Owner of the spider bull gives most the credit to the team, but he probly worked hard to afford it and shot true so...........

 

Definatly interesting

[Tines]

I have a hard enough time with addition and subtraction and the current system..........then you've got to throw in division and fractions ? I'd never be able to score an animal again! Good news is my 5yr old will probably be able to do it for me next year!

[AZantlerhead]

I thought the main purpose of scoreing systems was to give recognition to exceptional racks that are above average and bring appreciation and notice to "Big" animals for biology kinda records. And give fair mention of the hunter too, maybe even the finder of a big pick up?? Dan King definately put himself on a pedestool but who has ever really gave him congrats person to person? On the other hand we all get to be Aww struck by pictures of his monsters..........And i'm glad. Old Roosevelt was onto something.......I'm happy we have the systems.

 

If I got a score for the forky I got this year based on the work I put in, it would score higher then last years. By a smidge .

 

I think an overhaul of the scoreing system should be based on Volume of antlers and spread and symetry should be thrown out.

 

as well, all guided hunts in mexico/africa etc. would no longer be trophy hunts. Wich is totally bass ackwards so............

 

I love the sickness that is this website, and all us sickos that go with it.....allways something to look at or discuss.

[Diamondbackaz]

Last thing I think about is putting my name in a book. I look at measuring as way to tell how big the rack is. If I had a world record rack, you would not see my name in a book.

[DesertBull]

or we could just get rid of scoring. Period.

[AZantlerhead]

Last thing I think about is putting my name in a book. I look at measuring as way to tell how big the rack is. If I had a world record rack, you would not see my name in a book.

 

, well when you see him, don't shoot. call me so I can be the one, you can have the meat .

 

Without the systems Desert bull. all would be exterminated, like the buffalo, and elephant herds used to be.....

 

You guys just kill spikes only so us who appreciate big bone can hang umm on our walls k. jk

[MuleyMan]

Thanks for this topic............have you been reading my mind (or maybe my thread)??? Like your sarcasm SbD.......

 

Guys..........this topic is about gang hunting. Or rather...........anti-gang hunting. Personally, I would feel like a no-good loser coward chickensheet if I needed 8 guides, cousins and brothers-in-law to find a decent animal. Personal satisfaction seems to be a feeling that has been lost in modern day trophy hunting. The end doesn't justify the means!

 

Dang, this forum has more than a few trouble makers. I'm not sure how much longer I can hang around here..............

[JMP]

i don't see a problem with scores. they let me know how big an animal is. when someone uses a score as a way of feeling better about themselves, well then, that just says something about that person. like being in a record book actually means something.

 

i don't see what the big deal is with having a lot of people on a hunt. i would go glass and look for an animal to shoot for my sister's cousin's ex-boyfriend's half brother twice removed if it meant time in the mountains observing deer and not in an office. what's the big deal? if you don't want a lot of people in your pictures then don't take em with you, but why be critical of others who do?

[AZantlerhead]

Thanks for this topic............have you been reading my mind (or maybe my post)??? Like your sarcasm SbD.......

 

Guys..........this topic is about gang hunting. Or rather...........anti-gang hunting. Personally, I would feel like a no-good loser coward chickensheet if I needed 8 guides, cousins and brothers-in-law to find a decent animal. Personal satisfaction seems to be a feeling that has been lost in modern day trophy hunting. The end doesn't justify the means!

 

Dang, this forum has more than a few trouble makers. I'm not sure how much longer I can hang around here..............

 

 

hmmm, personal satisfaction is awesome. Comradery is too..... I hunt alone usually but lets face it, shareing the hunt is awesome as well.

 

heck, they ever find that bin ladin dude? Maybe a single hit man could do it? lmao

 

No ones holding you down are they? lol. stick around , IT'S A GAS!!! I'm going to bed now.........I think.

[DesertBull]

Last thing I think about is putting my name in a book. I look at measuring as way to tell how big the rack is. If I had a world record rack, you would not see my name in a book.

 

, well when you see him, don't shoot. call me so I can be the one, you can have the meat .

 

Without the systems Desert bull. all would be exterminated, like the buffalo, and elephant herds used to be.....

 

You guys just kill spikes only so us who appreciate big bone can hang umm on our walls k. jk

 

You can't appreciate without a tape measure?

 

[MuleyMan]

Thanks for this topic............have you been reading my mind (or maybe my post)??? Like your sarcasm SbD.......

 

Guys..........this topic is about gang hunting. Or rather...........anti-gang hunting. Personally, I would feel like a no-good loser coward chickensheet if I needed 8 guides, cousins and brothers-in-law to find a decent animal. Personal satisfaction seems to be a feeling that has been lost in modern day trophy hunting. The end doesn't justify the means!

 

Dang, this forum has more than a few trouble makers. I'm not sure how much longer I can hang around here..............

 

 

hmmm, personal satisfaction is awesome. Comradery is too..... I hunt alone usually but lets face it, shareing the hunt is awesome as well.

 

heck, they ever find that bin ladin dude? Maybe a single hit man could do it? lmao

 

No ones holding you down are they? lol. stick around , IT'S A GAS!!! I'm going to bed now.........I think.

 

 

Buddies, cousins, and brothers-in-law all have a place in a person's life. And that place is...........at a birthday party or a family reunion or maybe watching an NFL game on the big screen having pizza and beers. True, legitimate trophy hunting is about gaining the personal satisfaction that it was only you against the animal.........and that you overcame all of the challenges and difficulties and whacked a great animal all by your lonesome. That's what trophy hunting is!!! How in the world can anyone claim personal satisfaction or any kind of accomplishment with 15 people involved??? By definition, when a hunter brings in others...........he/she is admitting that they are not up to the task and cannot succeed alone. So......if you are one of these............spare me your field photos and magazine articles representing fraudulent, deceptive success and stop searching for my approval and respect and awe. You ain't gonna get it cuz you have to EARN that from me. Overcome the animal and the challenges YOURSELF............or stay home and enjoy your beer.

[SilentButDeadly]

AZantlerhead - I totally recognize the effect of another helping me bag a biggin (shoot i don't even think I could come through in a pinch if someone gave me a push-start - again, another topic) I actually said in my first post that I PREFER to hunt with ~3 people.

 

IMO scoring systems are fine, but idolatry of big scores are dis-ingenuous and lead to a pornography of the sport. I've never entered an animal I've taken, probably never will.

 

My point is, why not castrate (at least calibrate the current system) of bragging rights for all those big $$$ hunters by instituting a 'group hunt' rule? If they care about the game, like they say ,who cares if they enter their 'trophy' - what makes them different from guys who pay high-fencers to shoot world records off sandario feeding canisters?

 

Would it damage the current G$F business model? Sure!

 

Would it be bad for AZ game management ($$'s wise)? Probably -- less $ means less for land, game, rangers, etc, but at least we are managing trophy game for everyone, and sitting those un-skilled, over hyped, ego trippers on the fence. Why not recognize the guys (mostly guides) who put in the hours, and are devoted, to keeping our state the top game producer in North America?

 

Would it be significant for game management in our state? Doubt it, even if you took the $100k-1m contributions for 'Governor's tags' out of the ~$78m G&F budget - which come-on - if you had the income to burn, who cares about score, and whether you can put it in a book? You are going to pay to go try and get a biggun!

 

Let us decide, even as just an online community, who is ,and isn't a 'great hunter', we've already been doing it privately - we know that the guy (Denny Austad, bless him for his contribution to Utah G$F) who killed the 'Spider bull' bought it.

 

It isn't our destiny (most of us) as hunters to be wealthy trophy hunters (the majority of gov' tag holders), but it is within our community the right to decide who is and isn't a 'great hunter'.

 

T

[Guest 300ultramag.]

I think this club you speak of is called Pope and Young

viva la bow hunters!!!

 

I did have a good time on my rifle hunt this year!

first rifle tag in years..

 

 

 

 

 

[MuleyMan]

AZantlerhead - I totally recognize the effect of another helping me bag a biggin (shoot i don't even think I could come through in a pinch if someone gave me a push-start - again, another topic) I actually said in my first post that I PREFER to hunt with ~3 people.

 

IMO scoring systems are fine, but idolatry of big scores are dis-ingenuous and lead to a pornography of the sport. I've never entered an animal I've taken, probably never will.

 

My point is, why not castrate (at least calibrate the current system) of bragging rights for all those big $$$ hunters by instituting a 'group hunt' rule? If they care about the game, like they say ,who cares if they enter their 'trophy' - what makes them different from guys who pay high-fencers to shoot world records off sandario feeding canisters?

 

Would it damage the current G$F business model? Sure!

 

Would it be bad for AZ game management ($$'s wise)? Probably -- less $ means less for land, game, rangers, etc, but at least we are managing trophy game for everyone, and sitting those un-skilled, over hyped, ego trippers on the fence. Why not recognize the guys (mostly guides) who put in the hours, and are devoted, to keeping our state the top game producer in North America?

 

Would it be significant for game management in our state? Doubt it, even if you took the $100k-1m contributions for 'Governor's tags' out of the ~$78m G&F budget - which come-on - if you had the income to burn, who cares about score, and whether you can put it in a book? You are going to pay to go try and get a biggun!

 

Let us decide, even as just an online community, who is ,and isn't a 'great hunter', we've already been doing it privately - we know that the guy (Denny Austad, bless him for his contribution to Utah G$F) who killed the 'Spider bull' bought it.

 

It isn't our destiny (most of us) as hunters to be wealthy trophy hunters (the majority of gov' tag holders), but it is within our community the right to decide who is and isn't a 'great hunter'.

 

T

 

 

Disingenuous=What trophy hunting has become.

 

Disagree with your desire to recognize guides, tho. A guide who is paid for size (which is all of 'em) WILL live and work for instant gratification and doesn't care about a state or region being a top game or trophy game producer in the long term. I think that being "short-sighted" is a box that must be checked on the application form for a guides license in this and every other western state.