Are you ready for the long shot? I am...

[Good]

That is great info Good. I am in 100% agreement with you. Just to reinforce, high BC bullets are less affected by all of the elements including ballistic inconsistencies such as higher extreme velocity spreads. Granted, there is no substitute for low ES, a high BC bullet can help. Like you said, the big issue is windage. Nobody should care anymore about flat trajectories. That is why we have laser rangefinders. Whether you adjust 40 clicks or 50 clicks it doesnt really much matter. Flat trajectory and minimal wind drift rarely go hand in hand. I will use the 308/208 versus the 308 Warbird. Before I get into that, let me say that equal bullet for equal bullet and max velocity potential for each, the 308 Warbird will always win hand down. That said, if you take the factory loaded 308 Warbird ammo with the 168SMKs (3500 FPS) and run it against the 308/208 combo (2600 FPS) you will find the Warbird's trajectory looks like a lazer line and the 308's trajectory looks like a rainbow. Now to reinforce the importance of BC's as Good has pointed out, let's compare the energy and windage down range. the 308/208 combo retains 975 pounds of energy at 1K and 71" of drift with a 298" drop. The Warbird retains 971 pounds and 73" of drift with 191" of drop. Is there enough difference here to worry about? No. For all practical purposes (ballistically that is) they are equal at 1K. This is just to illustrate how valuable a high BC is when it comes to wind and energy retention. The fact that two different cartridges of the same bore diameter can be fired 900 FPS apart and they can both be equal at 1K. Flat trajectories dont always mean less drift. When looking at the price of reloading that Warbird and the super short throat life in the barrel, I can live with a rainbow trajectory. Which brings me to the 338's running the 300 Berger. A legitimate BC of over .800 offers you over 2000 pounds of energy and LESS than 50" of drift in a full 10 MPH cross wind. Go up to 5000' for a coues hunt and they become almost 2400 pounds and 39" of drift. 39" in a 10 MPH wind is stupidly minimal. Take that fact coupled with the fact that I choose not to shoot at game when the wind is blowing that fast. Most of the time, shots are taken in 3-7 MPH and they are ussually at an angle other than 90 degrees. So let's look at the middle of the road. 5 MPH with a 4:30 wind. The value becomes 14". Now let's say that 1/2 way to the target a lull in the wind or a gust happened. You may have a 2-3" +/- variance. This is still within an acceptable kill zone. At 14", you would'nt even have to hold off the animal. Now it starts to look do-able and ethical hugh?

 

Currently I have some 30 cal 177 grain bullets on order from a company called GS custom bullets. IF they work as advertised, they would be the ultimate 308 winnie bullet. Expansion at 1500'/sec and a .6+ BC. The numbers do seem a bit too good to be true but I will always try almost anything once. If they are full of crap then it was money well spent. If they are great, then it is even better money spent. Kind of like when you loan somebody 20 bucks and you never hear from them again, then it was worth it!

I don't always explain things well. I'm glad you're around to make it clear! I have long wanted to try the GS Custom bullets, but at $2 a bullet, they are out of my price range... You're right though, the low weight for velocity, pushed by R17 which seems to be the perfect powder for the 308 Win case capacity (so far anyway), plus the relatively high BC is a recipe for a serious look. They used to advertise their BC in the 7s but have recently made revisions. One thing, they say these 177s won't stabilize with slower than 1:10" twist. Please keep us updated as to your findings. I could very well develop a hunting load with these and use "shelf" bullets just for general practice and range shooting.

[308Nut]

That is great info Good. I am in 100% agreement with you. Just to reinforce, high BC bullets are less affected by all of the elements including ballistic inconsistencies such as higher extreme velocity spreads. Granted, there is no substitute for low ES, a high BC bullet can help. Like you said, the big issue is windage. Nobody should care anymore about flat trajectories. That is why we have laser rangefinders. Whether you adjust 40 clicks or 50 clicks it doesnt really much matter. Flat trajectory and minimal wind drift rarely go hand in hand. I will use the 308/208 versus the 308 Warbird. Before I get into that, let me say that equal bullet for equal bullet and max velocity potential for each, the 308 Warbird will always win hand down. That said, if you take the factory loaded 308 Warbird ammo with the 168SMKs (3500 FPS) and run it against the 308/208 combo (2600 FPS) you will find the Warbird's trajectory looks like a lazer line and the 308's trajectory looks like a rainbow. Now to reinforce the importance of BC's as Good has pointed out, let's compare the energy and windage down range. the 308/208 combo retains 975 pounds of energy at 1K and 71" of drift with a 298" drop. The Warbird retains 971 pounds and 73" of drift with 191" of drop. Is there enough difference here to worry about? No. For all practical purposes (ballistically that is) they are equal at 1K. This is just to illustrate how valuable a high BC is when it comes to wind and energy retention. The fact that two different cartridges of the same bore diameter can be fired 900 FPS apart and they can both be equal at 1K. Flat trajectories dont always mean less drift. When looking at the price of reloading that Warbird and the super short throat life in the barrel, I can live with a rainbow trajectory. Which brings me to the 338's running the 300 Berger. A legitimate BC of over .800 offers you over 2000 pounds of energy and LESS than 50" of drift in a full 10 MPH cross wind. Go up to 5000' for a coues hunt and they become almost 2400 pounds and 39" of drift. 39" in a 10 MPH wind is stupidly minimal. Take that fact coupled with the fact that I choose not to shoot at game when the wind is blowing that fast. Most of the time, shots are taken in 3-7 MPH and they are ussually at an angle other than 90 degrees. So let's look at the middle of the road. 5 MPH with a 4:30 wind. The value becomes 14". Now let's say that 1/2 way to the target a lull in the wind or a gust happened. You may have a 2-3" +/- variance. This is still within an acceptable kill zone. At 14", you would'nt even have to hold off the animal. Now it starts to look do-able and ethical hugh?

 

Currently I have some 30 cal 177 grain bullets on order from a company called GS custom bullets. IF they work as advertised, they would be the ultimate 308 winnie bullet. Expansion at 1500'/sec and a .6+ BC. The numbers do seem a bit too good to be true but I will always try almost anything once. If they are full of crap then it was money well spent. If they are great, then it is even better money spent. Kind of like when you loan somebody 20 bucks and you never hear from them again, then it was worth it!

I don't always explain things well. I'm glad you're around to make it clear! I have long wanted to try the GS Custom bullets, but at $2 a bullet, they are out of my price range... You're right though, the low weight for velocity, pushed by R17 which seems to be the perfect powder for the 308 Win case capacity (so far anyway), plus the relatively high BC is a recipe for a serious look. They used to advertise their BC in the 7s but have recently made revisions. One thing, they say these 177s won't stabilize with slower than 1:10" twist. Please keep us updated as to your findings. I could very well develop a hunting load with these and use "shelf" bullets just for general practice and range shooting.

 

I will keep you posted on the 177's. I should have my new barrel in a week or two. It is a 10x barrel. I plan on using the 178 AMAX and 208 AMAX's for general shooting to save coin like you are talking about. I will still use the 208's as a sheep/deer/antelope load. They drift about the same (just a hair less) and hit quite a bit harder as well as open at lower velocities. I would like to use the 177's for black bears, elk and moose at medium ranges when I dont feel like lugging the Edge around. Even though it is only a pound and 1/2 heavier, I notice that extra 1.5# on long pack trips. Plus it is a bit bulkier with the longer barrel and much larger scope. The 308 is much more user friendly on the long back pack trips.

[Good]

That is great info Good. I am in 100% agreement with you. Just to reinforce, high BC bullets are less affected by all of the elements including ballistic inconsistencies such as higher extreme velocity spreads. Granted, there is no substitute for low ES, a high BC bullet can help. Like you said, the big issue is windage. Nobody should care anymore about flat trajectories. That is why we have laser rangefinders. Whether you adjust 40 clicks or 50 clicks it doesnt really much matter. Flat trajectory and minimal wind drift rarely go hand in hand. I will use the 308/208 versus the 308 Warbird. Before I get into that, let me say that equal bullet for equal bullet and max velocity potential for each, the 308 Warbird will always win hand down. That said, if you take the factory loaded 308 Warbird ammo with the 168SMKs (3500 FPS) and run it against the 308/208 combo (2600 FPS) you will find the Warbird's trajectory looks like a lazer line and the 308's trajectory looks like a rainbow. Now to reinforce the importance of BC's as Good has pointed out, let's compare the energy and windage down range. the 308/208 combo retains 975 pounds of energy at 1K and 71" of drift with a 298" drop. The Warbird retains 971 pounds and 73" of drift with 191" of drop. Is there enough difference here to worry about? No. For all practical purposes (ballistically that is) they are equal at 1K. This is just to illustrate how valuable a high BC is when it comes to wind and energy retention. The fact that two different cartridges of the same bore diameter can be fired 900 FPS apart and they can both be equal at 1K. Flat trajectories dont always mean less drift. When looking at the price of reloading that Warbird and the super short throat life in the barrel, I can live with a rainbow trajectory. Which brings me to the 338's running the 300 Berger. A legitimate BC of over .800 offers you over 2000 pounds of energy and LESS than 50" of drift in a full 10 MPH cross wind. Go up to 5000' for a coues hunt and they become almost 2400 pounds and 39" of drift. 39" in a 10 MPH wind is stupidly minimal. Take that fact coupled with the fact that I choose not to shoot at game when the wind is blowing that fast. Most of the time, shots are taken in 3-7 MPH and they are ussually at an angle other than 90 degrees. So let's look at the middle of the road. 5 MPH with a 4:30 wind. The value becomes 14". Now let's say that 1/2 way to the target a lull in the wind or a gust happened. You may have a 2-3" +/- variance. This is still within an acceptable kill zone. At 14", you would'nt even have to hold off the animal. Now it starts to look do-able and ethical hugh?

 

Currently I have some 30 cal 177 grain bullets on order from a company called GS custom bullets. IF they work as advertised, they would be the ultimate 308 winnie bullet. Expansion at 1500'/sec and a .6+ BC. The numbers do seem a bit too good to be true but I will always try almost anything once. If they are full of crap then it was money well spent. If they are great, then it is even better money spent. Kind of like when you loan somebody 20 bucks and you never hear from them again, then it was worth it!

I don't always explain things well. I'm glad you're around to make it clear! I have long wanted to try the GS Custom bullets, but at $2 a bullet, they are out of my price range... You're right though, the low weight for velocity, pushed by R17 which seems to be the perfect powder for the 308 Win case capacity (so far anyway), plus the relatively high BC is a recipe for a serious look. They used to advertise their BC in the 7s but have recently made revisions. One thing, they say these 177s won't stabilize with slower than 1:10" twist. Please keep us updated as to your findings. I could very well develop a hunting load with these and use "shelf" bullets just for general practice and range shooting.

 

I will keep you posted on the 177's. I should have my new barrel in a week or two. It is a 10x barrel. I plan on using the 178 AMAX and 208 AMAX's for general shooting to save coin like you are talking about. I will still use the 208's as a sheep/deer/antelope load. They drift about the same (just a hair less) and hit quite a bit harder as well as open at lower velocities. I would like to use the 177's for black bears, elk and moose at medium ranges when I dont feel like lugging the Edge around. Even though it is only a pound and 1/2 heavier, I notice that extra 1.5# on long pack trips. Plus it is a bit bulkier with the longer barrel and much larger scope. The 308 is much more user friendly on the long back pack trips.

[hijack]I hear ya on the weight thing. In planning a low-weight shooter I recently picked up a low mileage take off barrel in 338RUM from an XCR that I plan to get installed soon. I'll keep this one as light as possible (7-9lbs) for packing in the rough canyons and yet still take advantage of the BC and hard hitting scenarios listed above for medium range out to 700yds or so (hopefully she'll hold sub MOA out to 700, we'll see. Any more than that and I'll start over with it). The trick there is getting a good brake installed and making sure everyone's got hearing protection on in the heat of the moment. But since most of my hunting is by myself since my dad passed it's not a problem. [/hijack]

[BikerRN]

Thank you all for a very informative and educational thread.

 

This has sealed my decision to purchase a laser rangefinder scope with a built in ballistic drop compensator for my rifle.

 

Biker

[roninflag]

this saturday at ben avery there is a match. 600 yards. check your whitetail rifle. go to arizona desert sharpshooters.com . roninflag

[Good]

this saturday at ben avery there is a match. 600 yards. check your whitetail rifle. go to arizona desert sharpshooters.com . roninflag

I have a paintball tournament in Phoenix on Saturday or I'd definitely be there! Bummer...

[dieselroe]

Sometimes you just gotta hike a little closer.

[Flatlander79]

I am gonna start target shooting next to the road sure saves time being able to drive out 800 yds to set up the targets !!

[QUEST]

I would have to agree with all the comments on here. Last year my wife harvested a mule deer buck at 762 yards with one shot from my 300 rum 180 Nosler Partition traveling at 3250 fps, no wind. One thing that wasn't mention was bullet construction. You don't need a big magnum to shoot long distances. I've been researching the 7mm WSM and its interesting looking at Berger Bullets with 168 gr its BC .617. If you could get a load that would push 168 gr at 3000 fps well that would be one great set up.

 

quest

[coues7]

No matter what if you are going to kill animals at long range you need the right equipment PROVED in the field. That means taking shots a non living things in a variety of conditions and proving you can hit them......only hitting but hitting them consistently. I have found my greatest weakness is wind!

[DeerHunter3x3]

I took a 288yd shot with a 2.43 Winchester to get my buck this year. I was very surprised because my scope isn't a long range scope, and is only sighted in for 200yd. It was very windy, and you could hear the wind howling through this canyon. This is what I ended up with:

 

[GhostTracker180]

Good Article. Focus, breathe, squeeze and practice, practice, practice!

[ThomC]

See you don't need all that stuff if you know how to throw a baseball.

[coocoo4coues]

Good stuff. Thanks for the writeup. What is your setup? I'm looking to put together a budget long range rig.

[lancetkenyon]

You realize the thread is 4 years old, and the last post is a year old, right? But good resurrection.