Kofa input

[Rembrant]

Fellow hunters,

Please write a note to KofaLionComments@fws.gov, and give our Game Dept your support. To us it's a no-brainer to take out a lion that kills as many sheep in a year that the sheep herd can produce, but to the greenies it's murder.

We the sportsmen contribute money and sweat equity in conservation efforts to make our wildlife populations and hunting opportunities what they are today. And then the green people throw a wrench in it by aposing good management practices and forcing us to spend our wildlife mgt money on lawsuits to defend what we do.

This comment period on the Kofa management system is crucial. We the sportsmen are incredibly benevolent when it comes to stepping up in conservation efforts, but rediculously apathetic and lazy when it comes to voicing our opinion to the right people at the right time. Yes this is a challenge.

DO YOU THINK THE GREEN PEOPLE WILL MISS THIS CHANCE TO VOICE THEIR OPINION ABOUT KILLING COUGERS TO MANAGE SHEEP?

The Game Dept must always be able to use lethal means to manage lions. The alternative to this is the inability of the Game Dept to use lethal means to manage lions. Where would this start, and where would this end? Do you think the greenies would stop with problem lions or do you think they would cease the killing of all lions in this state if they could?

THIS HAS ALREADY HAPPENED IN CALIFORNIA. Do you think it can't happen here? Remember trapping?

This is a big deal guys and girls. e-mails are easy to write; you do it every day. DO IT NOW!

Mike

[Rembrant]

Sorry for the multiple postings - my computer was wiggin' out. Please delete 2 of the three.

Mike

[Non-Typical Solutions]

Sent.........

[Jakedunn]

 

Here is the babbling long winded diatribe that I emailed them.

 

Where do I start with my comments? First and foremost it is a crying shame what has happened to the Kofas. Having been born and raised only minutes away from the Kofas I have spent countless hours out in the desert hunting and camping and enjoying all it offered. The complete and utter mismanagement that has taken place on the refuge is unconscionable but sadly the norm for a government run agency. The loss of wildlife on the Kofas obviously didn't happen overnight. At least ten years ago a group of us hunters approached an overzealous ranger named Susan and told her that there were lion tracks in some of the washes. Something needed to be done but of course they didn't believe it at the time. About three to five years later we started finding kills and again told them something should be done or there would not be any animals left to hunt. Again nothing was done. In that same period of time the deer began to disappear from the mountains and only could be found in the flats of the dessert and countless sheep were found dead around the water. Not only did they not act, they actually tried to sugar coat it by putting out erroneous sheep over counts and under counting the lions. So basically I learned that if you want to know the actual numbers always cut in half their sheep and deer estimates and at least double their lion estimate. We won a steak dinner from betting an officer on what the counts were going to be, not sure about the legality of that one.

 

Three things that I find repulsive are that none of this is in hindsight, this was easily predicted, it should have been prevented. The other injustice is that those in charge of the mismanagement will never be held accountable. Everyone in a management position in the last ten years should be ashamed and held accountable so that they are not able to mismanage something else. If any business was run as you all have managed the kofas everyone would have been fired and the business would be broke.

 

To put it into perspective let us look at some of the numbers. There were at least 2000 sheep during its high point. I would bet they couldn't find 100 by air at this point even using their "see one multiply by a factor of seven method." No one is even talking about how this has decimated the deer herd. They have also been saying that there are five lions on the Kofas, which means in actuality that there are 10 to 15. If each one eats a mere 50 animals a year that is around 500 kills in an area with maybe 300 deer and sheep. This doesn't take a fisheries and wildlife biologist to figure out. Of course the often quoted, local "expert," that lives in a house on the kofas would have you believe that we have the world’s only vegetarian mountain lion. Or that it only eats the weak or diseased ones. Oh yes, lets never leave out the old catch all drought factor or how about the FWS favorite excuse, disease killed them. The only disease that I have seen is Lionittis. It kills the young and old, the sick and the healthy and anything in between.

 

Here are some rhetorical questions. Why are lions considered big game instead of a normal predator? Why are lions protected in almost all sheep areas of the state. You would not have to collar and kill lions, creating a public relations nightmare if you had not protected and established them in the first place. If you would have treated them like a coyote they would still exist but not be near the problem that they have become.

 

The sad part is that it is to late for the Kofas and even sadder is that as a state and a country we increasingly value predators more than big game animals. The main problem is not with the leftist, anti hunting, environmentalist groups it is within the agencies that we trust to manage our resources. The Arizona game and fish and the Us fish and wildlife could put all their people in a room and could not get a consensus on weather lions eat sheep!

 

Without a doubt and with one hundred percent certainty the Kofa sheep heard would be healthy with an absence of lions. That has never been in question. The question is whose agenda within the governing agencies will win out.

 

Sincerely,

Jake Dunn

 

 

[Brian Payne]

Short and sweet but sent none the less.

 

To whom it may concern,

I fully support the use of lethal force to manage predation on sensative, threatened, or endangered species such as the Desert Bighorn Sheep on the Kofa Mountain Range.

 

Thank you,

 

Brian Payne

Sahuarita, AZ

[Rembrant]

[

The sad part is that it is to late for the Kofas and even sadder is that as a state and a country we increasingly value predators more than big game animals. The main problem is not with the leftist, anti hunting, environmentalist groups it is within the agencies that we trust to manage our resources. The Arizona game and fish and the Us fish and wildlife could put all their people in a room and could not get a consensus on weather lions eat sheep!

 

Without a doubt and with one hundred percent certainty the Kofa sheep heard would be healthy with an absence of lions. That has never been in question. The question is whose agenda within the governing agencies will win out.

 

 

Jake,

Please focus.

The case in point at this time is that the greenies are forcing into dialog and vehememtly opposing the killing of one lion by the agency that manages our wildlife. They don't want lions being managed at all, let alone listing them as big game or predators. If the Dept. is no longer allowed, by legislation, to manage lions by legal means, then it is only a matter of time before we all lose our rights to hunt lions by public referendum. Do you think a lion hunt will stand up to a public vote? About as good as trapping did!

You are quick to share with us your knowledge of the area and your negative attitude towards the Game Dept., but all your letter will do is fuel the anti-hunters with "evidence" that even the states sportsmen have no confidence in an "incompetant" Game Dept.

Thanks,

Mike

[Jakedunn]

For one thing I didnt think that I was sending my letter to the "anti hunters." Secondly our game department is incompetant. Furthermore, last I checked the game department mandated that we can not hunt lions in wildlife refuges so a public vote wouldnt affect that to much. I do get your point, but you write your letter how you want and I will write mine how I want. It is essentially falling on deaf ears anyway as we have been discussing this issue for over ten years now. I probably shouldnt have responded back as I would hate to further Fuel the flame.

[Rembrant]

Our Game Dept. involes input from other agencies, and does their best to study things through before taking action, especially when it invovles the lethal means of removing problem animals.

They do this nowdays because of the backlash they would get from the greenies if they simply went out and dispatched a lion, bear or other problem causer. This costs us all a heck of a lot more money for what ends up being the same result anyway: the problem animal gets killed - but at least various agencies and scientists agreed, which leaves the greenies no leg to stand on. Our Game Dept does these things because even though it costs a lot of money, we (we meaning The Dept. and we the sportsmen who foot the bill) are actually saving money by not going to court because of a stupid lawsuit.

This really stinks don't it? Yep, but this is the world we live in now.

We are sending in our comments to an open forum discussion held by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (KofaLionComments@fws.gov). This is one of the joint agency efforts - which our Game Dept has agreed to - to gather a whole bunch of public input to the reality of killing mountain lions as a big game management tool.

Anybody and everybody who is interested may voice their opinion here. We may not like what the Dept. is doing here, but I'll bet you they don't like it either. In an effort to cover their butts - with all this joint effort stuff, instead of just whacking the problem animal John Wayne style - they are now taking the chance that sportsmen won't step up to the plate and voice our powerful opinion. You can bet the liberal bleeding heart animal lovers will write in.

Just google up "kofa sheep/mountain lion" and see what you get. I'm serious, you need to see this!

 

Hey look, Our Game Dept ain't perfect - we could go on for days - and we do on this forum. But this public input forum is not the time or place for this. Some of us may dislike the Dept and certain policies, but the alternative is NO HUNTING. Believe me, the anti hunters are not concerned with one dead lion on a national refuge, and they are writing in their comments. These nuts don't even want Barak Obama, whom they are having a slobbering love affair with, to swat a fly! They are trying to gain momentum to push lion hunting to a public vote. It is crucial for our hunting future, wildlife management, and the well-being of the game animals in this state that we the sportsmen step it up!

 

Jake, thanks for not coming back at me with venom. Of course you are intitled to youir opinion, and I am mine. This is what we love about this country. We all need to be on the same page now, wether we agree with the details in the policies or not. United we stand, devided we fall - and we ain't falling.

Mike

 

[Jakedunn]

I get your point and agree with your goals completely. I, like many Right-wingers, am just completely disgusted with the state of our country as a whole. This has made me into a bitter old man at the age of 34.

[matthewp45]

You are a bitter old man with out the countries problems !

[Jakedunn]

Ha ha ha. Thats why I told you we couldnt be friends until after lettuce season was over.

[yumabowhunter]

Trying to get anything done about the lions in the KOFAs is like trying to beat the house in Vegas.

 

YOU CANT DO IT!

 

THEY HOLD ALL THE CARDS!

 

To further Jake's point about the US Fish and Wildlife not wanting to admit there were lions in the KOFAs, after haveing picutres on our game cameras of lions we were told we were no longer allowed to put trail cameras up in the KOFAs.

 

What a joke.

 

Just another gross abuse of power and mismanagement by a government agency.

[Jakedunn]

The camera ban was because the flash disrupted the ambiance and natural moonlight while the lions were trying to eat. Duh! The timing of the ban, I am sure, was purely coincidental. Besides if they hadn't of baned cameras then it might have gone to a vote and the public would surely have banned it. I am just messing with ya Rembrant.

[4Falls]

Heres what will eventually happen in the KOFA's. USFWS along with some partner groups, probably The Center for Biological Diversity, Sierra Club and other very well funded "green" groups will force thru lawsuit AZG&F to replace the lion they removed from the area. Said lion will have special protection and federal and state dollars will be spent monitoring the lion and its safety and the safty of its offspring. They will even give the lion a special name, thru a contest by school children in the Yuma area.

 

The dead lion will become a martyr thus opening the door for the end of lion hunting in the state. More federal and state dollars will be spent monitoring the safety of all lions in the state and they will be given special status ALMOST equal to what the wolves get. Not the same because no creature on the planet is more important than a wolf as we all know.

 

Sheep populations will continue to plummet... most likley due to poaching because we all know that lions only eat rodents and the sickest and weakest animals they can find. Lions are after all the true conservationists. Sheep hunting will have to be curtailed until it can be determined what is causing the sheep to disappear. Then deer hunting, then the elk... all falling like dominoes.

 

If we had more lions, and more wolves, maybe add some grizzlies and some more condors to clean everything up we wont need to hunt anymore. What a great plan! Well we might need to import some cheetahs to help with the exploding pronghorn population in the state. Quick raise tag fees while we can to pay for some cheetahs.

[yumabowhunter]

Heres what will eventually happen in the KOFA's. USFWS along with some partner groups, probably The Center for Biological Diversity, Sierra Club and other very well funded "green" groups will force thru lawsuit AZG&F to replace the lion they removed from the area. Said lion will have special protection and federal and state dollars will be spent monitoring the lion and its safety and the safty of its offspring. They will even give the lion a special name, thru a contest by school children in the Yuma area.

 

The dead lion will become a martyr thus opening the door for the end of lion hunting in the state. More federal and state dollars will be spent monitoring the safety of all lions in the state and they will be given special status ALMOST equal to what the wolves get. Not the same because no creature on the planet is more important than a wolf as we all know.

 

Sheep populations will continue to plummet... most likley due to poaching because we all know that lions only eat rodents and the sickest and weakest animals they can find. Lions are after all the true conservationists. Sheep hunting will have to be curtailed until it can be determined what is causing the sheep to disappear. Then deer hunting, then the elk... all falling like dominoes.

 

If we had more lions, and more wolves, maybe add some grizzlies and some more condors to clean everything up we wont need to hunt anymore. What a great plan! Well we might need to import some cheetahs to help with the exploding pronghorn population in the state. Quick raise tag fees while we can to pay for some cheetahs.

 

 

Couldn't have said it better myself. You hit the nail right on the head. The sad part is what you said is not too far from the truth.