Flying for scouting purposes

[yesitisme25]

Can anyone on here, maybe Amanda, Coues n Sheep, or CMC, who seem to have a knowledge of Arizona Game and Fish laws, tell me what the laws are regarding time frames to fly for scouting purposes? I've got an upcoming early elk tag and I would like to hire someone to fly my unit for scouting purposes. My interpretation is that as long as I don't fly in my unit 48 hrs prior to the early elk hunt that I am legal. Is this correct? The writing is a little confusing in the regs.

[Tines]

Pretty sure it's 48hrs prior to ANY hunt going on in the unit you'll be flying.......might be wrong though.

[CouesWhitetail]

Yes, I believe it's 48 hrs before ANY big game hunt, but I don't have the law in front of me. It's not just 48 hrs before your hunt, but any hunt. Best suggestion is to call AGFD and ask or try and find the actual regulation on their website.

 

If anyone has the actual wording, please post it here.

 

Amanda

 

[300WBYMAG]

Maybe we should ask Mullins what the rule is????

[AZBob]

I think the window of opportunity for aerial scouting for your early rifle bull tag is over.

 

You can't locate wildlife from the air in a hunt unit with an open big game season, (or 48 hours before the opening of a season)

Archery deer seasons run from Aug 21 - Sept 10.

Archery elk seasons run from Sept 11 - Sept 24

Early rifle seasons open Sept 25.

 

I'd suggest contacting AGFD to confirm.

 

 

[yesitisme25]

Thank you Amanda, that is how I read it but I have seen otherwise when out in the field so I was confused. In fact, I have seen Game and Fish conduct their aerial surveys during hunts so I guess I am a little wary of who to believe. I guess the best thing would be to call G and F, although I have done that before on other issues and gotten different answers to the same question by different employees before. That's why I was hoping there was some experienced flyers out there who may know for sure.

 

30-378, boy you seem to have an axe to grind with the G and F. I saw you had some concerns on the bear dispossal issue as well. Maybe we can get a G and F employee to clarify on here for us like on the bear issue. It is always better to be fully informed, especially on a seemingly confusing issue such as this. In the mean time, I will call the office and let you know what I find out. I just have a busy schedule so thought this could save time.

[RoughCut]

Can I use an aircraft to scout wildlife before or during the season?

 

 

No. Commission Rule R12-4-319 states that a person shall not use any aircraft, or any contrivance used for flight, or any lighter-than-air contrivance, to take, locate, or assist in locating wildlife beginning 48 hours before and during all big game seasons. This rule applies to all big game seasons and includes Commission Order special seasons. The Arizona Game and Fish Department also states aircraft cannot be used at any time in a manner that results in harassment to wildlife.

 

 

prior to 48 hours you are good.

[300WBYMAG]

From AZGF:

 

http://www.azgfd.gov/faq/Hunting.shtml

 

Can I use an aircraft to scout wildlife before or during the season?

No. Commission Rule R12-4-319 states that a person shall not use any aircraft, or any contrivance used for flight, or any lighter-than-air contrivance, to take, locate, or assist in locating wildlife beginning 48 hours before and during all big game seasons. This rule applies to all big game seasons and includes Commission Order special seasons. The Arizona Game and Fish Department also states aircraft cannot be used at any time in a manner that results in harassment to wildlife.

 

R12-4-319

Use of Aircraft to Take Wildlife

A. For the purposes of this Section, the following definitions

apply:

1. “Aircraft” means any contrivance used for flight in

the air or any lighter-than-air contrivance.

2. “Locate” means any act or activity that does not take

or harass wildlife and is directed at locating or finding

wildlife in a hunt area.

B. An individual shall not take or assist in taking wildlife

from or with the aid of aircraft.

C. Except in hunt units with Commission-ordered special

seasons under R12-4-115 and R12-4-120 and hunt units

with seasons only for mountain lion and no other concurrent

big game season, an individual shall not locate

or assist in locating wildlife from or with the aid of an

aircraft in a hunt unit with an open big game season.

This restriction begins 48 hours before the opening of

a big game season in a hunt unit and extends until the

close of the big game season for that hunt unit.

D. An individual who possesses a special big game license

tag for a special season under R12-4-115 or R12-4-120 or

an individual who assists or will assist such a licensee shall

not use an aircraft to locate wildlife beginning 48 hours

before and during a Commission-ordered special season.

E. This Section does not apply to any individual acting

within the scope of official duties as an employee or

authorized agent of the state or the United States to

administer or protect or aid in the administration or protection

of land, water, wildlife, livestock, domesticated

animals, human life, or crops.

[yesitisme25]

300,

 

Did you copy and paste that from the 09'/10' regs themselves? They must have revisioned them because I don't remember them being that clear in definition. I did not have this years regs to read. I don't remember them referencing the special seasons and such. What is that statute you highlighted? Is that for the auction or governer's tags? If so, does that mean no one can fly when the auction hunter is able to hunt? Well wouldn't that keep anyone from flying at any time cause I thought there was an auction tag holder season 365 days a year? Or is that just saying those involved with the auction tag holders can't fly but everyone else can? See so confusing!!!!!!!!! I don't want to make a mistake. Still have to call office, hopefully they can clarify.

[300WBYMAG]

300,

 

Did you copy and paste that from the 09'/10' regs themselves? They must have revisioned them because I don't remember them being that clear in definition. I did not have this years regs to read. I don't remember them referencing the special seasons and such. What is that statute you highlighted? Is that for the auction or governer's tags? If so, does that mean no one can fly when the auction hunter is able to hunt? Well wouldn't that keep anyone from flying at any time cause I thought there was an auction tag holder season 365 days a year? Or is that just saying those involved with the auction tag holders can't fly but everyone else can? See so confusing!!!!!!!!! I don't want to make a mistake. Still have to call office, hopefully they can clarify.

 

 

Yes, I actually copied and pasted it from the 09-10 regs. I would understand that as a governor's tag being in that category, but you are absolutely right it is confusing and you wonder how it will be interpreted and if it will be interpreted consistently. I would think that it would only apply to the parties involved with governor's or another special tag, but that is just my personal interpretation and I don't know if you will even get a consistent answer from G&F. Personally, you couldn't get me in one of those flying lawn chairs with a chute behind it in the first place!

[AZBob]

Yes,

 

Don't get hung up on the special permit seasons. Just focus on the regular big game hunts. Is there an archery deer hunt on in your unit now? If so, you can't scout it by air, and it looks like there are no breaks between now and the start of your hunt.

It seems to me that part is pretty clear.

 

[bonecollector]

Good luck getting a hold of G&F, I tried to call them on Monday when I was out archery hunting to report a dead doe that I found (not sure if it needed to be reported or not) just thought I would. I was on hold for 30 minutes then I finally got someone then they put me on hold agian for 15 minutes so I hung up.

[The Claw]

So Yes, were you able to get a hold of the department for clarification? What I recommend is to not only call the office but be sure to go directly to the top, possibly the Director of Law Enforcement to get your answer so that you do not get misinformation from someone lower. As we all have experienced with "draw time" that can happen.

 

I have learned that what the previous poster, sdrhunter has posted is correct, but don't take my word for it either. I do find it interesting about the "special tag" wording but the way I read that is the "special tag" holder and and those aiding the tag holder CANNOT be flying within 48 hrs of their hunt, so that would mean the last day for them to fly would be the 12th, correct? Who knows but please call the office to clarify.

[scoutpylot]

Don't fly to "scout". Flying should be a tool to help you get an idea of the overall topography, road locations, possible camping areas, not to locate and field judge animals. If you are not "scouting " AZGFD rules don't apply to you. FAA rules apply. Any licensed pilot is required to know the rules about minimum in flight altitudes, special use airspace restrictions, ect. If you are flying over the hunt unit for the purpose of sight seeing, or enroute to a destination, you have every right to do so. The minute you start circling animals, flying low and slow over areas repeatedly, you have now entered the rehlm of scouting. If you "harass" an animal with an airplane, you have violated AZGFD rrules as well as USFWS rules. Harassment is defined by any flght pattern that causes the animal to run. DON'T use an airplane to harass animals!!! We shouldn't need the government to give us rules about things that are ethical issues. Don't be a dirtbg.

 

If you want to see what your unit looks like from the air. I suggest that you (and/or your pilot) speak with the FAA FSDO (flight standards district office). There is one in Scottsdale and one in Las Vegas depending on which side of I-40 you are planning to fly in. Let them tell you what is acceptable. If you still aren't comfortable as to what rights you have, then there's always Google Earth.

[Guest 300ultramag.]

he wants to fly