Mullin's Got it done in a big way!

[bobbyo]

"This bull was in a spot that a lot of people were scouting and was known by most of them. The bull frequinted tanks that had several trail cams on them, so he was no secret. He was very decieving and was underestimated by several guides and outfitters. We spent a lot of time trying to put an accurate score on him and we figured him to be between 395 to 405. Jim told the hunter what he thought "Wilber" would score and I don't think it really mattered to him. It was more about the history and the uniqueness of the bull. Once the bull was dead, everybody realized how off we all were on his score. We figuered people would call B/S on the score so Jim had it measured by a master measurer and "Wilber" came out to 445 3/8. We underscored his bottom end, mass, width and extras. He is truly awesome!!!!

 

All I can say is that bulls head must be huge. A world record head. Looks to me like a 360 frame with 25/30 points of trash. For a bull of that caliber the mass and the fronts look weak. Main beams are exceptionally long though and the trash certainly adds points, but I was under the impression to break the 400 mark you needed exceptional score in all areas. Wrong again.

Bob

[mjmhunter]

"This bull was in a spot that a lot of people were scouting and was known by most of them. The bull frequinted tanks that had several trail cams on them, so he was no secret. He was very decieving and was underestimated by several guides and outfitters. We spent a lot of time trying to put an accurate score on him and we figured him to be between 395 to 405. Jim told the hunter what he thought "Wilber" would score and I don't think it really mattered to him. It was more about the history and the uniqueness of the bull. Once the bull was dead, everybody realized how off we all were on his score. We figuered people would call B/S on the score so Jim had it measured by a master measurer and "Wilber" came out to 445 3/8. We underscored his bottom end, mass, width and extras. He is truly awesome!!!!

 

All I can say is that bulls head must be huge. A world record head. Looks to me like a 360 frame with 25/30 points of trash. For a bull of that caliber the mass and the fronts look weak. Main beams are exceptionally long though and the trash certainly adds points, but I was under the impression to break the 400 mark you needed exceptional score in all areas. Wrong again.

Bob

 

Thats pretty much what everybody thought. I was not there when it was green scored so i can't quote specific measurements. I do know he was measured at 53 inches wide if that helps you.

[matthewp45]

Hey Biscuits I see it's your second post. If your gonna be negative mad guy why don't you not make a third. A huge congrats to the hunter and the great crew guiding him. The Mullins team are the most honest, hard working, humble, knowledgeable and just all around great guys you would ever meet. They are out there for their love of hunting and nothing else. They have worked their tales off the whole summer for their clients and they deserve every monster bull they get. A huge congrats to the hunter on an absolute giant. Hopefully Chrissy will send me a picture of another giant from the raffle tag holder in the next few days.

[biscuits]

That is the beauty of SCI, you can take some pretty liberal assumptions and measurements. Personally I like the SCI system because it rewards growth but in a case like this that bull doesn't deserve a 53" spread just because it has a tweeked out right beem. In my humble opinion, that score doesn't accurately represent that bull.........if it did then everyone wouldn't be second guessing it. We have all seen the SCI scores that accurately represent a bull because there are no deductions accounted for but the growth and measurements are just more of a "Gross B and C" score and we all relate with that. Lets stick with even gross B and C scores.

I get tired of people picking and choosing on here what they want to glorify or not glorify. Lets be real. Is this common practice for outfitters? Now granted it seems most advertise in gross scores but sci?

[Coues Sniper]

I agree with SDR, for what it's worth. I don't think you can tell a guy what side of the unit he can/can't hunt on though. But taking big animals out of any area hurts genetics.

And biscuit, he is with Moss, but somehow still manages to be a decent guy . Take it easy.

[JACK]

370"-390" bull dont reach 400" because people kill them! How can the genetic gene pool suffer by the killing these "top end bulls"? They have most likely bred cows for several years before they have reached their "top end" If a bull has the genetic potential to be a 400+ bull and breeds a cow when he is a spike then he has already passed on his genes...the genes of a bull are the same regaurdless of how mature he is...

[biscuits]

OK guys,

 

I will tone it done, sorry. Obviously, have an outfitter (not Mullins directly) bone to pick some times. Actually its a general public bone to pick not just outfitters, LOL. I have seen so many things get portrayed one way in the public and then things not really be what they are.........all for the benefit of others. You watch the news and see how some politician who is the most humble honest guy out there get caught for soliciting sex. i will take your word for it that these guys are good, hard working, honest guys and probably deserve success. But in my humble opinion, take it or leave it, it is kind of deceiving to throw out an SCI score in this situation. I think if it was another outfitter or especially "Joe Blow" hunter I would not be the only one saying this so bluntly. At least admit there is a bias here. Having said that, I will not be surprised when (if) that bull is officially scored that he does not even hit the 435" mark. And if he hits 435" its because of the generous credits that are possible through SCI.

 

Regardless, like I said I know there had to be a few archers who would of crapped their pants to shoot this bull and were looking forward to it. He is a trophy bull. Congrats to the hunter.

[Brian Payne]

370"-390" bull dont reach 400" because people kill them! How can the genetic gene pool suffer by the killing these "top end bulls"? They have most likely bred cows for several years before they have reached their "top end" If a bull has the genetic potential to be a 400+ bull and breeds a cow when he is a spike then he has already passed on his genes...the genes of a bull are the same regardless of how mature he is...

 

Exactly

[matthewp45]

I really wish we only had one measuring system. I am sure it was probably the closest official measurer he could find. He probably wanted to make sure he wasn't loosing it because he wasn't believing his math. I think we should change to a water displacement method. Place the antlers in water, in an official container all the way up to the bases. However much the water rises due to the total mass of the antlers and a width measurement.

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

"Wilber" is truly breath taking and was taken by a very deserving hunter. Huge CONGRATS to him. Thank you to both the hunter and Mullins Outfitters for allowing me to be part of this hunt.

 

This bull was in a spot that a lot of people were scouting and was known by most of them. The bull frequinted tanks that had several trail cams on them, so he was no secret. He was very decieving and was underestimated by several guides and outfitters. We spent a lot of time trying to put an accurate score on him and we figured him to be between 395 to 405. Jim told the hunter what he thought "Wilber" would score and I don't think it really mattered to him. It was more about the history and the uniqueness of the bull. Once the bull was dead, everybody realized how off we all were on his score. We figuered people would call B/S on the score so Jim had it measured by a master measurer and "Wilber" came out to 445 3/8. We underscored his bottom end, mass, width and extras. He is truly awesome!!!!

 

sdrhunter,

 

In my humble opinion, I think you are comparing apples to oranges with sheep and elk. The few giant bulls that are already at the top end of their genetic potential that are getting killed is not hurting a population of elk to still produce giants. Its the 370's to 390's that have the potential to become the 400+ bulls that get killed on the archery, rifle and muzzleloader hunts. Killing say 6 to 8 of the 370 to 390 type bulls in 1 year would impact a unit more than a few 400+ bulls being killed by a very few guys with the special tags.

 

 

>>>Manny

 

i disagree with your quote as most 370-390" bulls never reach 400". when these bulls, "top end bulls," are consistently taken out of one reasonably small area then the genetic potential of the area has to suffer. there are not 400"++ bulls behind every tree, even in unit 9. When these bulls are killed they no longer pass on their genes and 370" bulls breed. although they are not small, they are not top end as the top end gets killed every yr in the same area.

 

last yr. for example, there was not one 400" bull taken out of unit 9 in the archery, early rifle, or late hunts combined. it was an average yr. or better for horn growth and yet no 400" bulls. they have been getting hammered hard in that unit and two 400" type bulls, "top end bulls," out of the same areas year after year affect the areas potential to consistently produce these giants. no problem with the gov. tag, outfitters guiding them, hunters, or anything associated with the tag or hunt, just a simple observation.

 

 

Hmmmm... So what you are saying is that all you Mossback guys are soooo worried about the elk in unit 9 that you are going to pull all you cameras out of the unit.... stop lobbying for SR and Auction hunters with pics of bulls that you guys have gotten on TC's in 9 over the last 2-5 years???? I think not..... I am pretty sure there are people with masters degrees in Wildlife Biology that have little better understanding of carrying capacities that will detremine what the herd can take.... not an open forum fired up by elk hunters that are not getting paid to hunt with the Big Dogs this year and therefore must remain on the porch..... Furthermore it has only been the "Bad Cop/Worse Cop" Routine between obvious Team MB guys that even brought up what unit the bull was from and Allegedly what part of that unit he was in at the time the Dirt Nap was invoked. As we all know.... when the bulls rub they move... and Wilbur could have been 30 miles away by then..... I mean seriously, if he was that easy to kill and he was the only bull they were hunting do you think they were camping for 9 days and decided to walk out and kill "the bull" on the 10th??? On a completely separate note.... comparing elk to sheep is like comparing cedar trees to century plants.....

 

 

 

 

.....And for those of you that are doubters.... I underjudged a coues buck my buddy killed last week by 18"! I saw the TC pics and he said he thought 105"... I said 102"+ and the buck was taped at 121ish by a P&Y measurer....... I also have been looking at the scouting pics of Wilbur for months and had him at about 410ish.... I am told that many other VERY Qualified elk hunters mis-judged this bull on the hoof, and it is not the first time that has happened. I am quite sure that the Gentleman that tagged this bull does not give a Rip if anyone is "convinced" that the bull is that big....he wanted THAT BULL! The fact is the SCI score sheet is done and headed for the book.... I'd bet you can check it on line in the weeks/months to come if you really have to hold on that tight to the concept that "Team Mullins is Lying about the score!" Better yet, lets stand up and applaud what a great week this has been for the elk all over this state! If I am not mistaken this is one of the largest, if not the largest Auction bull ever taken on Public Land in AZ. A bull of this size taken on public land, will keep funneling those much needed $$$$ back to elk habitat in this great state for years to come!! I'd like to thank the man who purchased this tag, and I pray the tag goes for more $$$ next year!

 

I think rather than turning this thread into a boo hoo, Bitter-fest..... maybe we can get back to the deserved congrats to the Hunter, his amazing Bull, and the great bunch of guys that helped him ground check that Bad Mutha!! A Huge Congrats to "the Guys" and to the very happy man that set his cap for Wilbur 2 months ago!!!!

 

Here is a pic of Wilbur on the hoof.... he is a PIG! (I actually have the Green Light to post it up! )

 

[ehunt]

Alright guys we are taking the harvest of a great bull and starting to argue like monster muleys about the score. Who really cares if it was measured SCI or Boone and Crockett or Po Dunk Billy Bob style with a measuring tape. Lets get back to appreciating the hunt and congratulating all individuals involved!

[Brian Payne]

With my crooked measuring tape I bet that bulls beams are in the mid 60's. What a frame!

[biscuits]

i agree on a universal scoring system. Guess never happen based on history of B and C. Sorry again if I came across ruff. I did wake up with that stomach flu thing today! Congrats to hunter and outfitter although we will still have to agree to disagree on the score..........that is more of a reflection on the measurer not the guides. Would like to see some final scores after the official scorings on a lot of animals posted up on internet just for some checks and balances and would give some validity to the whole deal. I am just a real stickler for details, sorry. In the end, doesn't really matter though. I need some TUMS!

[Simple Hunter]

i agree on a universal scoring system. Guess never happen based on history of B and C. Sorry again if I came across ruff. I did wake up with that stomach flu thing today! Congrats to hunter and outfitter although we will still have to agree to disagree on the score..........that is more of a reflection on the measurer not the guides. Would like to see some final scores after the official scorings on a lot of animals posted up on internet just for some checks and balances and would give some validity to the whole deal. I am just a real stickler for details, sorry. In the end, doesn't really matter though. I need some TUMS!

 

Biscuits - sounds like maybe you have some "antler" envy.

 

Score shmore, non typpies like that are awesome regardless of score.

[matthewp45]

Amen Coues N Sheep. I am thinkin in the next few days we will see another "Mullins do it Again" thread and I can't wait. I am jealous of those boys livin the dream. What an awesome way to spend the summer. I am getting pumped I can't wait for my December 23 elk hunt. Bring on the pics Jim.