Guest 300ultramag. Report post Posted August 27, 2009 biscquik wants a pissing match..... any takers? I dont know much about tires or elk sooo Ill stand on the sidelines..sorry biscuit, but go pound sand brother...... This bull is sooo money.. And the beauty of it is... its a DONE deal! Congrats to everyone! even the nay sayers..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
300WBYMAG Report post Posted August 27, 2009 "Wilber" is truly breath taking and was taken by a very deserving hunter. Huge CONGRATS to him. Thank you to both the hunter and Mullins Outfitters for allowing me to be part of this hunt. This bull was in a spot that a lot of people were scouting and was known by most of them. The bull frequinted tanks that had several trail cams on them, so he was no secret. He was very decieving and was underestimated by several guides and outfitters. We spent a lot of time trying to put an accurate score on him and we figured him to be between 395 to 405. Jim told the hunter what he thought "Wilber" would score and I don't think it really mattered to him. It was more about the history and the uniqueness of the bull. Once the bull was dead, everybody realized how off we all were on his score. We figuered people would call B/S on the score so Jim had it measured by a master measurer and "Wilber" came out to 445 3/8. We underscored his bottom end, mass, width and extras. He is truly awesome!!!! sdrhunter, In my humble opinion, I think you are comparing apples to oranges with sheep and elk. The few giant bulls that are already at the top end of their genetic potential that are getting killed is not hurting a population of elk to still produce giants. Its the 370's to 390's that have the potential to become the 400+ bulls that get killed on the archery, rifle and muzzleloader hunts. Killing say 6 to 8 of the 370 to 390 type bulls in 1 year would impact a unit more than a few 400+ bulls being killed by a very few guys with the special tags. >>>Manny i disagree with your quote as most 370-390" bulls never reach 400". when these bulls, "top end bulls," are consistently taken out of one reasonably small area then the genetic potential of the area has to suffer. there are not 400"++ bulls behind every tree, even in unit 9. When these bulls are killed they no longer pass on their genes and 370" bulls breed. although they are not small, they are not top end as the top end gets killed every yr in the same area. last yr. for example, there was not one 400" bull taken out of unit 9 in the archery, early rifle, or late hunts combined. it was an average yr. or better for horn growth and yet no 400" bulls. they have been getting hammered hard in that unit and two 400" type bulls, "top end bulls," out of the same areas year after year affect the areas potential to consistently produce these giants. no problem with the gov. tag, outfitters guiding them, hunters, or anything associated with the tag or hunt, just a simple observation. Hmmmm... So what you are saying is that all you Mossback guys are soooo worried about the elk in unit 9 that you are going to pull all you cameras out of the unit.... stop lobbying for SR and Auction hunters with pics of bulls that you guys have gotten on TC's in 9 over the last 2-5 years???? I think not..... I am pretty sure there are people with masters degrees in Wildlife Biology that have little better understanding of carrying capacities that will detremine what the herd can take.... not an open forum fired up by elk hunters that are not getting paid to hunt with the Big Dogs this year and therefore must remain on the porch..... Furthermore it has only been the "Bad Cop/Worse Cop" Routine between obvious Team MB guys that even brought up what unit the bull was from and Allegedly what part of that unit he was in at the time the Dirt Nap was invoked. As we all know.... when the bulls rub they move... and Wilbur could have been 30 miles away by then..... I mean seriously, if he was that easy to kill and he was the only bull they were hunting do you think they were camping for 9 days and decided to walk out and kill "the bull" on the 10th??? On a completely separate note.... comparing elk to sheep is like comparing cedar trees to century plants..... Better yet, lets stand up and applaud what a great week this has been for the elk all over this state! If I am not mistaken this is one of the largest, if not the largest Auction bull ever taken on Public Land in AZ. A bull of this size taken on public land, will keep funneling those much needed $$$$ back to elk habitat in this great state for years to come!! I'd like to thank the man who purchased this tag, and I pray the tag goes for more $$$ next year! I think rather than turning this thread into a boo hoo, Bitter-fest..... maybe we can get back to the deserved congrats to the Hunter, his amazing Bull, and the great bunch of guys that helped him ground check that Bad Mutha!! A Huge Congrats to "the Guys" and to the very happy man that set his cap for Wilbur 2 months ago!!!! Coues n Sheep don't back down now saying that wasn't a personal attack when it clearly was. " stop lobbying for SR and Auction hunters with pics of bulls that you guys have gotten on TC's in 9 over the last 2-5 years???? I think not..... " That isn't an attack on Mossback??? Then telling you that Mossback finds bigger bulls and kills bigger bulls in the units you live in/by isn't an attack on you... If you are going to throw out these atta...er words then stand by them or be specific on what you say isn't an attack. Those weren't general statements about this thread going in the wrong direction they were directed to MB. You are right on the bull. It is a great bull and many people misjudged it including me. I had him 400-405, still a sick bull even when uderestimated, but after holding him, he is definitely much bigger. And I can see the questions that biscuit boy or biscuit eater had with the scores. Last year Mullins had a bull that the reported score was in the 430's and I hear, again I state I HEAR that the official score sheet of that bull after drying period and without velvet that it came in with a score in the 400-410 range. Would like to see that score sheet posted. Still a great bull, but makes you suspect of scores being thrown out there. And while I don't like agreeing with you I have to agree that it is good for AZ with this caliber of bull being taken and driving money directly back into taking care of the elk. I'm sure that hunter is so excited to be able to have taken that bull with the help of mullins. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
COOSEFAN Report post Posted August 27, 2009 Hey guys, stole my bro's laptop again and now after reading through all this i'm wishin' i had just stayed in camp! First off, the only time i had ever mentioned that velvet bull from last year being 430 was when I was told by somebody who is not affiliated with my outfit what he measured the bull at. I was at home when that bull was killed, the hunter passed that bull up with me that morning and i told him it would score 405". The friend of the hunter was there when the bull was killed and he took 5 mass measurements per side.....I found that out once i arrived back in camp and scored it at 420". That bull was killed towards the end of July and was still growing his top end out, thus having a lot of fluid and soft tissue on the tips of the 5ths and beams. I only stated what I scored him at in camp, never said it was official and fully expected that bull to shrink....it's only common sense. I have never heard of it being scored officially and wouldn't be surprised if there was a 10-15 inch difference in score, it's expected! Second, my outfit and friends have had nothing but respect for Team Mossback. They are the only other outfit that scouts as hard if not harder than us and their results year after year reflect that. With that being said, I am surprised at some of the comments but it's OK, everyone is entitled to em'. Third, I knew full well that this debate about score would happen. Once we knew we were going to hunt Wilbur, we asked a handful of outfitters who we knew had experience with big bulls to help us score him out. There were a lot of unknowns such as body size, face and ear lengths etc. that we had to speculate and guess in order to get a good idea of score. Nobody, including us, thought Wilbur bull would beat 410 for sure. It wasn't until I walked up to him that i realized how big his body was and that was what throws him off visually. Because we knew full well what everyone else thought he scored, and because i was coming up with crazy numbers, we decided to only have him scored by an official measurer. As for the SCI thing, I didn't care who scored it, just as long as it wasn't me!!! It was by coincidence that an SCI master measurer happened to be picking up some mounts from the taxidermist at the time we were there. He scored Wilbur with a bunch of guys watching the entire time. Anyone that puts Wilbur's rack in their hands will fully understand what is going on here. Wilbur is the most deceiving bull any of us have ever seen, i'm just glad we were guessing low! Fourth, the facts are a great hunter and friend of ours just killed a monster Arizona bull. The fact is that an official measurer scored this bull at 445 3/8's inches. The fact is also that we are very excited that Wilbur had such a huge ground "swelling" when we finally walked up to him! And also another fact is that this bull was taken legally, ethically and a whole grip of money was raised for Arizona elk with the purchase of this tag! I'm dissappointed with all that i've heard but i'm not surprised, i want to share photo's and stories with you all but at this point I really am spent and just want to go hunt and forget about all this junk. I'm sorry i won't be posting any additional photos or stories, you will see them soon enough somewhere I'm sure. I love this site, have been a part of it for a long time and have tons of respect for most of you here so I will post a picture here and will try to get some more later on when things settle down. Thank you to all of you who respect us for who we are and for what we do, we try hard to respect others and only hope for the same in return. Take care all and let's please keep this thread about congrats to the hunter and respect for an amazing bull! Thanks and take care, JIM> BTW...just some numbers to help you visualize the actual size: Average of 17's on the bottom, 20" average on 3's and 4's, 15" 5th on left 12" on right with 6" 6th on right, around 30" of extras, 53" inside, 60 2/8" right beam, 57" left beam and just over 63" of mass. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wetmule Report post Posted August 27, 2009 Good grief, I wonder why anyone ever shares their success?? GREAT JOB Jim and crew and hunter, Congratulations guys on a great hard earned trophy!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Apache7mm Report post Posted August 27, 2009 Beautiful Bull Elk, congrats!!! DAN Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
300WBYMAG Report post Posted August 27, 2009 Jim, Thanks for the post and for being so well spoken in your response. I'mglad to see a response directly from you and how you professionally handled it. Thanks for clarification on the other bull as well. Great job on taking that monster and keep it up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SitNspot Report post Posted August 27, 2009 Good grief, I wonder why anyone ever shares their success?? GREAT JOB Jim and crew and hunter, Congratulations guys on a great hard earned trophy!! AMEN.....Sometimes this gets pretty rediculious and its not just this thread alot of other positve threads get bashed. We all love hunting be happy for there success. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CouesWhitetail Report post Posted August 27, 2009 Thanks Jim for your post! I know you are very busy right now and I appreciate you taking the time to clarify some things and post the pic!! Congratulations to the hunter and outfitter on a GREAT bull! Amanda Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Huntmoore Report post Posted August 27, 2009 Great Response, Jim...you guys are a real class act. If I ever have the money, you guys are at the top of my list!! Congrats on a job well done, a beautiful bull, and congrats to your hunter on the trophy of a lifetime! God Bless! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snapshot Report post Posted August 27, 2009 Congratulations to the hunter, and team Mullins! great job. That bull is just plain..................Huge! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Browning'sCustomMeat Report post Posted August 27, 2009 Great job Jim, and thank you for posting your pictures and stories. Congrats to the hunter on an OUTSTANDING bull. Totally amazing. Good luck on the rest of the hunting season! -Jeremy- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JWag21 Report post Posted August 27, 2009 Great Response, Jim...you guys are a real class act. If I ever have the money, you guys are at the top of my list!! Congrats on a job well done, a beautiful bull, and congrats to your hunter on the trophy of a lifetime! God Bless! +1 Way to go, guys!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZBAR Report post Posted August 27, 2009 Beautiful bull. Congrats to everyone involved. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daryl_s Report post Posted August 27, 2009 It's too bad that every time a world class animal is harvested that some people just can't help but sling mud A huge congrats to the hunter and the Mullins Team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lucky2hunt Report post Posted August 27, 2009 I have been a long time fan of the Mullins Team, not just because they help harvest big bulls, but also because they are genuinely nice, hard working guys! Congrats on another great hunt! I just wish they were over in Unit 8 to help me... Ilene Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
