Bear Arms and Protest

[TAM]

The more we look like radicals, the less change we are able to effect. And thanks to Chris (Gentleman with AR) Eleanor Holmes Norton (D-D.C.) is calling for MORE restrictive measures...ALL brought on by this incident. I doubt the founders would have walked around with AR's if they had them. They would have used rhetoric and logic to effect change, as they did with countless letters to the British before it came to all-out war. War was their LAST resort.

 

Some of you yanks may be lookin for a fight, but I can guarantee that I'm not. Look folks, while I understand that blood MAY have to be shed to keep our nation free, I'm not ready to give up the war of words for my stockpile in order to put my family and future generations in danger. War is NOT pretty. It isn't something I want to happen again on American soil between fellow countrymen. If we can keep this debate civil without inflaming the other side to further restrict our rights, we'll be much better off.

 

This war is more effectively fought via elections (And LOOK! We have a MAJOR one coming up next November) than it is through grandiose [read: stupid] gestures and sending out harbingers of war.

 

IMHO,

azhuntergirl

 

Show me exactly where we started looking like radicals? Carrying an AR-15 in peaceful demonstration is not radical at all. It is an open carry state and he acted within all of the laws.

 

How do you know what the Founding Fathers would have done? Were you there? The Founding Fathers had the brass to stand up for what they believed and literally put their lives on the line for it. All I see you doing is telling people that they shouldn't stand up for what they believe because of what some liberal on the east coast might think. This isn't some beauty contest where the prettiest face wins. This is about standing up for what we believe regardless of what the gun grabbers think.

 

Yanks... I think not!

 

[joeybari]

I need to put this out there

I don’t feel comfortable period when someone is within striking distance of our president whether you like him or not I AM NOT A FAN OF Obama, but he is our president

If this guy is making a point he did, to tourists that someone can go to a presidential rally with a gun. And many of you are going to tell me well people were looking at him and walking him to his place making sure he is not doing anything, so have we not seen tourists blow them selves up and not care?

 

[soazarcher]

The more we look like radicals, the less change we are able to effect. And thanks to Chris (Gentleman with AR) Eleanor Holmes Norton (D-D.C.) is calling for MORE restrictive measures...ALL brought on by this incident. I doubt the founders would have walked around with AR's if they had them. They would have used rhetoric and logic to effect change, as they did with countless letters to the British before it came to all-out war. War was their LAST resort.

 

Some of you yanks may be lookin for a fight, but I can guarantee that I'm not. Look folks, while I understand that blood MAY have to be shed to keep our nation free, I'm not ready to give up the war of words for my stockpile in order to put my family and future generations in danger. War is NOT pretty. It isn't something I want to happen again on American soil between fellow countrymen. If we can keep this debate civil without inflaming the other side to further restrict our rights, we'll be much better off.

 

This war is more effectively fought via elections (And LOOK! We have a MAJOR one coming up next November) than it is through grandiose [read: stupid] gestures and sending out harbingers of war.

 

IMHO,

azhuntergirl

 

Show me exactly where we started looking like radicals? Carrying an AR-15 in peaceful demonstration is not radical at all. It is an open carry state and he acted within all of the laws.

 

How do you know what the Founding Fathers would have done? Were you there? The Founding Fathers had the brass to stand up for what they believed and literally put their lives on the line for it. All I see you doing is telling people that they shouldn't stand up for what they believe because of what some liberal on the east coast might think. This isn't some beauty contest where the prettiest face wins. This is about standing up for what we believe regardless of what the gun grabbers think.

 

Yanks... I think not!

 

 

Carrying an AR to a peaceful demonstration is radical and crazy and VERY, VERY, VERY BAD FOR OUR IMAGE!!!! I know its an open carry state, and yes I carry quite often.

 

Retards carrying downtown at public demonstrations should have their rights revoked.

 

This post and story is so ridiculous, I am baffled by people who think this crap is OK.

 

Go ahead, let me have it. I won't be reading this post anymore, anyway.

 

These people are embarrassing the gun owning community and are the reason we will see more restrictive gun laws in the near future. Ok, I'm done.

[azhuntergirl]

First off: "Yanks" as my family and many others from WWII have used it refers to an American soldier from WWII. It's what the Allied European forces called us - kind of like "doughboy" from WWI. (And in other terms, my family is from the North and South...so I have no cause to use it in any derogatory fashion)

 

I obviously wasn't there during the Founding, but from having read as many founding documents as I can get my hands on, they made one thing very clear: war is a last resort. you do all you can as citizens to not put fire in the belly of your 'enemy', and to resolve things with logic and reasoned discussion. They did not use false logic and appeal to emotion, but to reason. They were reasoned men, who conducted themselves accordingly.

 

And I believe you have misread what I've said. I'm NOT telling people to stop standing up for their rights. I've done more in the political community via the RNC as well as the NRA than most people my age in this state. I'm incredibly active on behalf of 2nd amendment rights. But I'm also not going to allow emotion to dictate my action, but rather logic and reason. I'm not attacking people, I'm not being rude. What I've said over and over is this: EXERCISE your right. BE PROUD of your rights and your country. I sure as heck am. I have a brother in Iraq on his second tour getting shot at daily. I have 3 grandfather's that served (yes...3). I have friends that have served, died, and lost limb. I have a cousin who was permanently disabled because of 9/11.

 

Chris B said that he "carries a weapon always, except for when he's in the shower". But he doesn't walk around his work, the grocery store, the post office, or down the street with his dog toting an AR-15. He carries his Glock 17 (not my choice of caliber in the .9mm he carries - but as a libertarian I support his right to carry an inferior caliber LOL JK GUYS!) everywhere. That day, he took his loaded Glock (fine) and his loaded AR-15.

 

I'm not disputing his right to carry ANY type of weapon. And I wish this were the country it once was, where that wouldn't phase anyone. But in order to effect change, we must act as rational and reasonable people - working through the highest moral tactics possible. My momma always told me ya win more flies with honey than with vinegar. Reasoned and logical debate is the honey, and Chris B's AR was the vinegar.

 

He just brought guns to the FOREFRONT of a debate that had nothing to do with firearms. He hit the left in the face with a baseball bat. Considering they are in power, perhaps we should be a bit more subtle in our tactics. He basically screamed to the Dems "Come take my guns away from me. Restrict my rights. I dare ya." Well ya know what.....that's what they're heading to do now. I have it from a very reliable congressional source that there are bills being drafted in order to further restrict 2nd amendment rights. Things we didn't want to happen. GREAT.

 

NOW I get to work even HARDER to undo the damage. Rights come with responsibilities and propriety in place of exercise. His AR wasn't the showing of logic and reason that the founders exhibited in their discourse with their enemies.

 

[Str8Shot]

You know with my kids I tell them not to start fights and try to solve disputes through communicating and reason .... But I also teach them if a fight is started by someone else then beat him/or her down and make an example of them... Sad part is sometimes bullies and people in power only listen to powerful opposition and if a few guns give pause to a person to really think about what he or she is doing then it is all good... Look at every tape of the town halls over the last few weeks in which American citizens have beeen treated like outsiders to the process ... these politicians do not realize their jobs are to represent the ones with such big voices, instead they show through their actions they are there to serve their own interest usually lined with greed ... Sad we live in a world where people feel they have no personal responsabilities and part of that is because of this system of politicians and lawmakers that we think represent our best intrest are always looking for ways to screw us ....

[TAM]

The more we look like radicals, the less change we are able to effect. And thanks to Chris (Gentleman with AR) Eleanor Holmes Norton (D-D.C.) is calling for MORE restrictive measures...ALL brought on by this incident. I doubt the founders would have walked around with AR's if they had them. They would have used rhetoric and logic to effect change, as they did with countless letters to the British before it came to all-out war. War was their LAST resort.

 

Some of you yanks may be lookin for a fight, but I can guarantee that I'm not. Look folks, while I understand that blood MAY have to be shed to keep our nation free, I'm not ready to give up the war of words for my stockpile in order to put my family and future generations in danger. War is NOT pretty. It isn't something I want to happen again on American soil between fellow countrymen. If we can keep this debate civil without inflaming the other side to further restrict our rights, we'll be much better off.

 

This war is more effectively fought via elections (And LOOK! We have a MAJOR one coming up next November) than it is through grandiose [read: stupid] gestures and sending out harbingers of war.

 

IMHO,

azhuntergirl

 

Show me exactly where we started looking like radicals? Carrying an AR-15 in peaceful demonstration is not radical at all. It is an open carry state and he acted within all of the laws.

 

How do you know what the Founding Fathers would have done? Were you there? The Founding Fathers had the brass to stand up for what they believed and literally put their lives on the line for it. All I see you doing is telling people that they shouldn't stand up for what they believe because of what some liberal on the east coast might think. This isn't some beauty contest where the prettiest face wins. This is about standing up for what we believe regardless of what the gun grabbers think.

 

Yanks... I think not!

 

Carrying an AR to a peaceful demonstration is radical and crazy and VERY, VERY, VERY BAD FOR OUR IMAGE!!!! I know its an open carry state, and yes I carry quite often.

 

Retards carrying downtown at public demonstrations should have their rights revoked.

 

This post and story is so ridiculous, I am baffled by people who think this crap is OK.

 

Go ahead, let me have it. I won't be reading this post anymore, anyway.

 

These people are embarrassing the gun owning community and are the reason we will see more restrictive gun laws in the near future. Ok, I'm done.

 

Why even post if you're to chicken to come back and discuss your position?

 

[TAM]

First off: "Yanks" as my family and many others from WWII have used it refers to an American soldier from WWII. It's what the Allied European forces called us - kind of like "doughboy" from WWI. (And in other terms, my family is from the North and South...so I have no cause to use it in any derogatory fashion)

 

I obviously wasn't there during the Founding, but from having read as many founding documents as I can get my hands on, they made one thing very clear: war is a last resort. you do all you can as citizens to not put fire in the belly of your 'enemy', and to resolve things with logic and reasoned discussion. They did not use false logic and appeal to emotion, but to reason. They were reasoned men, who conducted themselves accordingly.

 

And I believe you have misread what I've said. I'm NOT telling people to stop standing up for their rights. I've done more in the political community via the RNC as well as the NRA than most people my age in this state. I'm incredibly active on behalf of 2nd amendment rights. But I'm also not going to allow emotion to dictate my action, but rather logic and reason. I'm not attacking people, I'm not being rude. What I've said over and over is this: EXERCISE your right. BE PROUD of your rights and your country. I sure as heck am. I have a brother in Iraq on his second tour getting shot at daily. I have 3 grandfather's that served (yes...3). I have friends that have served, died, and lost limb. I have a cousin who was permanently disabled because of 9/11.

 

Chris B said that he "carries a weapon always, except for when he's in the shower". But he doesn't walk around his work, the grocery store, the post office, or down the street with his dog toting an AR-15. He carries his Glock 17 (not my choice of caliber in the .9mm he carries - but as a libertarian I support his right to carry an inferior caliber LOL JK GUYS!) everywhere. That day, he took his loaded Glock (fine) and his loaded AR-15.

 

I'm not disputing his right to carry ANY type of weapon. And I wish this were the country it once was, where that wouldn't phase anyone. But in order to effect change, we must act as rational and reasonable people - working through the highest moral tactics possible. My momma always told me ya win more flies with honey than with vinegar. Reasoned and logical debate is the honey, and Chris B's AR was the vinegar.

 

He just brought guns to the FOREFRONT of a debate that had nothing to do with firearms. He hit the left in the face with a baseball bat. Considering they are in power, perhaps we should be a bit more subtle in our tactics. He basically screamed to the Dems "Come take my guns away from me. Restrict my rights. I dare ya." Well ya know what.....that's what they're heading to do now. I have it from a very reliable congressional source that there are bills being drafted in order to further restrict 2nd amendment rights. Things we didn't want to happen. GREAT.

 

NOW I get to work even HARDER to undo the damage. Rights come with responsibilities and propriety in place of exercise. His AR wasn't the showing of logic and reason that the founders exhibited in their discourse with their enemies.

 

Who said anything about a war? Of course it's always a last resort. Bringing an AR-15 to a protest/demonstration is a far cry from war. I'm not sure where you are going with that?

 

Yes the Founding Fathers were reasoned men. But I would hardly say they conducted themselves accordingly. They were slave owners, adulterers, and they loved their alcohol. Regardless of how they conducted themselves they were indeed patriots.

 

Besides the obvious, what's the difference between carrying an AR-15 and a Glock? Is one any less of a gun than the other? Again I don't understand your logic? So, it's ok to pack a Glock, but not an AR-15. That doesn't make any sense? If that's the way you feel then why don't we just let all the gun grabbers ban AR-15's?

 

You say you're "not disputing his right to carry ANY type of weapon", but then you slam him for carrying an AR-15. Isn't an AR-15 considered a weapon? If so then why are you slamming him for carrying it?

 

You say we must act as "rational" and "reasonable" people. Isn't that exactly what happened? No arrests. No disorderly conduct. No danger to the President or civillians, etc, etc. Nothing got out of hand whatsoever. Don't you consider that rational and reasonable???

 

You say "He just brought guns to the forefront..." Where have you been for the last 50 years??? Guns have been at the forefront of debate for longer than you or I have been alive. This is nothing new. It's the same ol left wing media fueling the fire of the liberal gun grabbers. As long as there are guns and stupid people this debate is never going to go away.

 

The left needs to be hit in the face with a baseball bat.... over and over again.

 

Being subtle in our tactics is what got us in this mess in the first place.

 

Time to wake up out of dream land and take a stand for what you believe.

 

 

[wetmule]

http://fridaypage.com/images/fridaypage/08..._guncontrol.wmv

[azhuntergirl]

Since I'm not a fan of futility, I'll refrain from saying much more about this topic. But before I go:

 

1) I'm not certain where you were educated, but MOST of our founding fathers were honorable men. Owning slaves was an acceptable practice, and even at times a Biblical one. And not all of them were alcoholics....water supply wasn't as clean as ours is, cultural differences, etc. However, adultery is a different story. John Adams, George Washington, James Madison, Patrick Henry, George Mason, Alexander Hamilton, Benjamin Franklin. ALL these men were GREAT men. And as Winston Churchill said, all great men have great faults. But that says nothing to their purposed debate and reason.

 

2) We are in a war of words, lets not bring firearms to a Presidential rally that inflame minds and hearts of the radical left. I'm aware that only God can convert their twisted minds, but there are plenty of average citizens out there that would be interested in reasoned debate that tuned out and were turned off when Chris B stepped on the scene with his "assault weapon".

 

2) We all know Glocks and AR's are perceived differently in minds of the uneducated populous. Education should be our goal with this population of dimwits, not toting around already "scary" firearms. To do so continues to attach a further "Waco,TX" stigma to these types of firearms. I would have said Ruby Ridge, but while Randy Weaver was considered to be a "gun toting nut job", he was only convicted of missing his court date. And that was due to a bad attorney.

 

3) This was a healthcare rally. What is the point of bringing a NEW debate to an unrelated debate? What I mean, and what you misinterpreted was this: I am incredibly aware that the gun debate has been going on for a long time since I've read all the supreme court decisions pertaining to the 2nd amendment (I intend on going to law school, and would like to work for the legal branch of the NRA). But the gun issue had nothing to do with what the rally was about. Stick to one issue at a time.

 

4) Go rally with firearms for this: Another 2nd Amendment Lawsuit

NOT THIS

Obamacare

 

4) It's sad to me that I've been told over and over that I'm "hiding", "in dream land", and "Not standing up for our rights", since it's obvious that is not what I'm about, or who I am. Don't doubt my dedication to the country our founders created, and people like my big brother have fought to keep free. That's a presupposition you are in no position to make.

 

Since we all believe we are right (I know I do ), I agree to disagree on this one and let things be. It's as futile as banging your head against a wall.

 

Best Wishes,

Azhuntergirl

 

P.S. TAM, my boyfriend is on your side on this debate, so date nights have been interesting

 

[joeybari]

cease and desist your incessant sesquipedality!

your to smart for me huntergirl

[hunt4horns]

He was a total idiot. The old saying goes "don't wake a sleeping tiger". Let it sleep. We don't need anymore attention brought on us gun owners. . .

[hunt4horns]

Besides, can you imagine the black eye we gun owners would have got if some idiot took the gun from him and shot someone or many let alone the President. The right to bear arms is for ones defense not to protest and prove idiots can carry guns too. Sickning!

[wetmule]

I really have to question the guy's motives and what his message is by bringing an AR to a presidential teleprompter speechifying bully pulpit session? If his message was to draw attention to himself to show that - yes armed citizens are actually peaceful people that believe deeply in the 2nd - and not crazy waco extremeists, he made his point quite well. BUT, big BUT - He had to know that the media would twist and portray him and all 2nd amendment defenders in exactly the opposite direction of his intention, and that is exactly what they did. The liberal media that controls 90% of all media loves this kind of crap as it allows them the opportunity to fire up their anti base and use it as ammo against us and the 2nd. Perception is reality and when you have the media lying, distorting, fabricating whatever they want while they control 90% of the message delivery system, they can create any message they want and distort the message to help achieve their objective. If shoulder fired missiles or RPG's were legal to carry, would the guy have shown up with one slung over his shoulder? I just think the guy was really stupid and he had to have known that whatever his message may have been - it would be used against him. If he didn't know it - then he was really, really, really stupid.

[joeybari]

I was a heath care forum what the heck did the 2nd amendment have to do with anything

Not a smart move any way we twist it

 

 

[billrquimby]

>>>>>>>"Bill, I know you look at this guy as a Rambo type, but he volunteered to be the person to carry the gun. The entire day was coordinated in advance with law enforcement just so it was not viewed as a bunch of nuts running around with guns. If we do not unite together to protect our rights, they will be taken away before we can blink an eye. You have so many more years of wisdom and experience than I do; and I respect that fact, but I am not going to let our goverment determine when and where I am able to carry my firearms to protect myself and my family. David">>>>>>>>

 

 

David:

 

The stunt may have been coordinated, but it WAS viewed from one end of the country (and the world) to the other "as a bunch of nuts running around with guns."

 

You are correct in that our rights can be taken away, and they will be if the in-your-face Rambo-types (and that is exactly what they are) continue their foolish, childish antics. Like it or not, our current liberal, guns-in-private-hands-fearing government has the power to say when and where you are able to carry your firearms.

 

And please don't say that the jerk we've been seeing on TV news programs all this week carried his AR15 to a healthcare rally to "protect his family" from an immediate threat.

 

The recent Supreme Court's 6-5 decision said Americans have the right to possess firearms in their homes, but it did not specifically extend that right to the streets or elsewhere. The Justices are hearing cases right now that will decide just how broad our Second Amendment rights might be. If more short-sighted idiots show up armed to the teeth at rallies where the president of the United States is in attendance-- just because there is no law against it -- don't be surprised if the decision goes 6-5 against us.

 

If that ignoramus really wanted to make a statement, he would have shown up dressed in 18th century attire and packing a genuine Kentucky-style flintlock longrifle and not what the media and most uninformed people call an "assault" rifle.

 

It would have been better for all of us and our cause as responsible firearms owners, however, if that cretin would have stayed home.

 

Bill Quimby